{ "media_type": "image", "post_content": "💣💣💣💣💣🧨🧨🧨🧨🧨🧨💥💥💥💥💥💥💥\n\n\nhttps://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/jul/23/top-ad-men-who-feared-obliteration-win-sex-discrimination-claim", "post_id": "60fb71fac60a27002969f032", "reply_count": 134, "vote_count": 16, "bowl_id": "5565cfca8b2b9a03009acf57", "bowl_name": "Advertising" }
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Black women promoted three times in five years is called progress. (Hell yea, love seeing people promoted to raise the income level for everyone). White male promoted twice in five years is called the problem. (Why is this still not good!?) This culture race war is just sad and the winner in all of this, companies as they let us eat ourselves up in marginalizing our value to continue to pay the workers less and the stock holders more, bc stock holders don’t have faces and colors.

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So. We just got a new ECD and we have a meeting on zoom to introduce ourselves, pretty standard stuff.. first she says, We got too many of “You” here that has to change. She mean straight males, I’m Latin my partner is white Now we’re fucking worried about getting the boot for no reason other than there’s too many straight men. I’m not even white! second occurrence. We get a brief my partner and I come up with concepts, then account team takes our ideas and deck and gives it to a young “tiktok” team to present because the client would be more receptive if Gen z presents since is the target audience.

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I was just talking about this with a friend. I recently started at a new agency. In my onboarding the HR person said they have a referral bonus but would appreciate it if I specifically refer BIPOC candidates. Then mentioned that they would actually prioritize hiring them over a white person if all skills were equal. I’m 100% for diversity, but stating it like that feels like we’ve almost gone too far and are trying to way over correct rather than just fix the issues.

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I don't even like commenting on this stuff because identity and race politics are so charged. But it has gotten to the point in some instances where some people are being hired more for their race/orientation than for their talent. Perhaps this pendulum swing is justified after years of favoring white men, but it's true nonetheless. Fair or unfair, it's not a good time to be a middle-aged white man in this business, and many others. Not complaining, just observing.

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so real quick: the better way to adjust gender pay gaps is to raise the salaries of those women you are underpaying...

likesmart

Hey everyone, I just want to point out that while we argue about men vs. women and black vs. white, real people lost their jobs so 99% of agency employees can be underpaid while 1% cash-in huge bonuses and brag about pay equity. That seems like the bigger issue and we are actually all on the same side in this, no?

likesmart

It’s not a bigger issue, it’s another issue we should all be concerned with. That said, it’s also simply indicative of the capitalistic society we live in.

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You don't make people equal by ripping others down - you make them equal by building everyone up! Pay women the right amount simples. Gutting their creative department of white men to get their levels right is a short term solution that shows they care more about figures than people.

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Ok Good. Earn their spot? I'm sure both named working class men felt like they had earned their spot when they broke into a private school and upperclass dominated industry in the 90's... not the same as BIPOC today but still it's all in context. Then going on to win awards and with one of them creating an advert which is still included in 'best ads ever' compilations... I understand that hard decisions that are made also, and your assessment of one of their books is probably accurate looking at it, but all 5...directly after an announcement like that? Looks Sus, and has been proven to be so.

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I’m all for diversity, 75% of hires in the past year have been BIPOC people. I know, as a white male, my time is nigh. I’m accomplished and paid well but I know people in leadership have goals and bonuses tied to righting the ship so none of my accomplishments mean nothing in the grand scheme of things. I hope women and POC are compensated equally, there’s no excuse this day and age for gender gaps.

likehelpful

Where is this actually happening? What agencies are doing this? Because last I read mostly all white men are still being hired at the top roles at agencies and corporations. I can recall only a handful of BIPOC hires at CCO/ECD level in recent years in US agencies.

likehelpful

Can confirm.

I have a lot of thoughts about the verdict and the plaintiffs but one thing I caught is that the quote was, “obliterate the *reputation* etc etc. Which then became “obliterating white men…”. And those two statements mean different things.

likesmart

Would have* Have Have Have Not of.

White vs non-white, rich vs not-rich, cops vs everyone, vaccinated vs unvaccinated, us vs them, we vs they… They’re turning Americans against each other for their own gain and you’re falling for it. Stop allowing the puppet masters to pull your strings.

likefunny

Lmao. This is the most American thing I’ve ever read. Does everyone in America think that everyone, everything, all the time is about America because you don’t think that any other country exists?! Do your homework. At least read the article.

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Two wrongs don’t make a right.

likeuplifting

Oh and, two whites don’t always make a wrong.

likeupliftingfunny

Creativity in advertising has never been worse than right now. That’s a fact. And the woman leading the charge is a notorious well—known harasser, minting money from speeches. But, hey, let’s raise a glass.

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That seems a leap. They never stated nor implied a larger number of women. But that said, I haven’t heard of many female harassers so I’d love to hear more! Like just bullying or sexual harassment???

Reverse racism does not exist.

likesmartfunny

In my experience, there are two different definitions of racism that people use: Narrow definition: Only refers to prejudice from someone in power / the majority against someone in the minority. Broad definition: Refers to prejudice from anyone to anyone because of their race. Clarifying our terms can lead to much better communication. It sounds like WS1 is using the narrow definition.

helpful

I was told explicitly by a CEO that they would not be considering any white male candidates for an open CCO role. I was shocked to hear someone say that out loud. It's at the point now where people think more racism is the solution to racism.

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Sounds like that CEO has not done the work to understand racial equity in the workplace and is looking for an easy solution to a complex problem.

The real issue here is male fragility. Why win your case, then pull a random bystander into an onslaught of vitriol because she is female, successful and gay?

likefunny

I mean - are you so fragile you can’t self-reflect? Fragility is not something you should hide from.

The wording has always just been “with equal skills sets we’ll hire for cultural fit” but we all know what that means

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“Cultural fit” is a red flag. We SHOULD be looking for people who don’t “fit” the comfortable nest we’ve built for ourselves. I’ve urged my agency to stop using this phrase during hiring conversations.

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I mean yeah, firing people for their gender/race has always been wrong. There were plenty of other solutions here, dunno why they picked such a dumb one.

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You can’t simple hire people based on race, sexual orientation, etc. to fill a quota. You hire people that have the skills needed to do the job. There is an incredible lack of diverse talent coming up through ad schools. There needs to be more ways for people to get exposed to the industry. Until then you aren’t excluding people if they aren’t in the hiring pool to begin with.

likefunny

My last agency was 67% female. That was the actual stat. And the agency leadership team was also majority female. And I have never met a man who works in PR. Also, in my experience, I've had to pay senior female creatives a premium because they are in such high demand. However, in my experience, there are definitely fewer senior female creatives.

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Agencies are firing their way to meet diversity goals and that is illegal. Once again no one is trying to solve societies inequities, they’re just correcting appearances.

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It was a Publicis Groupe agency

Maybe it’s just me, but it really doesn’t sound like they were clearing out all the white dudes to make way for BIPOC hires. They just had a meeting to to say, hey, we have a problem with diversity and we’re gonna start hiring BIPOC with intention so we can change the ratios because what we’ve been doing is wrong. And then these white guys went to HR, said no, we don’t like this initiative, we like things the way they are, we find it threatening and we want you to kill it, and HR was like lol ok, if you are going to make things difficult for the new initiative to work then you’re fired. This judgment sounds like total BS. Maybe in a way their race was part of it, but only insofar as to give them the privileges to be where they were to begin with.

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< Senior Copywriter 2, that is exactly what happened. The company acknowledged a problem with its reputation. Its image. At no point was there a remit to start making people redundant because of their age/ethnicity/sex. Nor was the speech about changing the reputation done to the company, it was at a networking event. But I can see from these comments that people have skim read a headline and jumped to their own conclusions. The editor at The Drum has written up a balanced piece about the actual court judgements, if anyone is interested in being diligent. Personally I saw it as a step back for progress. So many women are still leaving the industry. And I think it was sick that these two men then went to the sleaziest rightwing press and claimed that they would’ve had it easier if they were black or gay. Reprehensible comment. I took from it that they are, in actual fact, very uncomfortable with the idea of one of their peers being a gay woman.

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