A friend has failed the bar a few times, and it has so affected him that he decided he won’t try again. Fortunately he had a career prior to school and returned to it (with massive loan debt). I understand we are in a pandemic, but I can’t help but think of him every time I hear discussion of the diploma privilege bar admission alternative to the bar exam. Do you think this is the best alternative?

LA1, I’m interested in your statement that law is wrong for most people who are in it. Would you mind giving us more color on that? If you’re right it’s a sad commentary on a profession that has been around for a long time and that at least some of us appreciate.

OP, there are so many places one could go with your post. There’s already a serious oversupply of licensed lawyers. Is more really better, especially more consisting of folks who can’t pass a test that almost 90% of 2017 grads from accredited schools passed within two years of graduating?

When folks flunk the bar I also wonder how often that’s the first sign of trouble. How old is your friend do in law school? What’s done is done but I’ve actually wondered whether law schools have an obligation to help struggling students cut their losses bu disenrolling the bottom group of students, such as 25%? I teach law school classes regularly as an adjunct at a so so law school, and occasionally encounter students who have no earthly business pursuing a law degree either because they are dumb or because the lack the basic life skills to become effective and responsible attorneys. Once that’s revealed by the occasional rigors of law school, is it really in their interest to continue racking up debt in pursuit of a pipe dream? When I talk to administrators about such students — as I did a few weeks ago — the tuition collection motive is palpable, as is fear of being the person who has to make a tough decision. But who is really benefitting in that situation? I obviously don’t know your friend and may be wrong in assuming that he struggled in law school, but that’s exactly the case with most folks I know who flunked the bar more than once.

Lastly, at least for now, is there a more effective or reasonable credentialing exercise for lawyers, who after all can have a serious impact on the lives of their clients? The exam is supposed to be (but obviously isn’t) a competency screening process. A reasonably personable slab of cheddar can graduate from law school with a little diligence. Is that really the bar we want to set?

I know I went far afield here but your question got me thinking ... I would be grateful for your honest reply.

I failed the MA bar 3x and passed for another jurisdiction due the UBE AND managed to squeeze in motioning into DC based on MBE. I did compliance for 2 years and now I’m in house building up a legal department. I almost failed out of law school and then slowly increased my GPA. Let your friend know that not everyone follows the same path and failure builds character. Nothing is worse than a person who has a huge ego and doesn’t understand failure. Your friend will be resilient. Tell them to start thinking outside of the box.

I’m sorry to hear about the person giving up. Not passing the Bar is tough and demoralizing. I’m also sad to hear some being quick to equate that experience with incompetence in the legal field. It took me several tries to pass, finally biting the financial bullet to pay for a study program. I finally passed 3 years after graduating. I had several people (starting in high school) tell me I wasn’t cut out to be a lawyer, that this was a “pipe dream”, that I would never be good at or satisfied with this career choice. I’m very glad I ignored all of that well-meaning “advice” and incurred the debt and kept after it. Knowing that it took me several tries, would it surprise you to know that the most I ever missed by was 10 points? Does that make me incompetent? I don’t think so. What I learned from the study program was the test, not the law or one thing that helped my practice. What I learned from having to retake the exam (once over a single point!!) was perseverance, looking harder when everything you know still misses, and looking for new tools and solutions. Honestly, the skills I learned from my experiences made me a better lawyer and a better person. I just passed the 19 year mark. I have a good reputation with judges, attorneys, staff (mine and others), clients and even opposing counsel. I love my career and honestly can’t see myself enjoying anything else. There are a lot of different kinds of positions in the legal field and room for a lot of different types of people. I know attorneys who are unhappy, but most of them are unhappy because they are in wrong area of the law (if you hate talking to people family law is likely to make you crazy) or the wrong firm (great income but no personal life doesn’t work for everyone). Also, one last thought for the man who’s giving up on the Bar. I know several people who graduated law school and are using their degrees to leverage great careers that don’t require the Bar Exam. I hope he finds one.

I failed the CA bar multiple times. Finally passed in another state and waiting for my license. I know many people who had to retake it and are thriving. Passing in the first try isn’t necessarily the only factor that determines the kind of lawyer one will be.

Gently, law schools exist that should not--their teaching quality is low. Then graduates of these schools are not well prepared for the bar. Did your friend flail his way through law school? Passing the bar is not surefire for all.

I feel for your friend. Taking the bar once is awful and 2x or more is soul-crushing.

But it is a test of critical thinking and minimum competence. If his study methods are not working he needs to find a different way, get certified for a disability so he gets more time or know the material better.

Leaving the debt aside, in the abstract, this is akin to saying, "My friend failed a driving test many times. The test is screwed up and biased and should be abolished." Well, hundreds of thousands of others figured it out. Do you want that failed driver on the road? No. It's not safe!

Similarly, you friend probably shouldn't represent clients. He can be a paralegal though if he's passionate about law and just can't hurdle the test. He needs supervision because he hasn't demonstrated the capacity to stand on his own as a lawyer.

Legal screwups by counsel have real consequences. It's important attorneys demonstrate minimum competence and critical thinking skills to protect the public.

There should not be a bar exam this year, or any year until COVID is gone. It’s not in the test takers’ or their communities’ interests to have thousands of people all in a room together. It’s insane that states like FL are going on with their exams, despite hotels in the area cancelling their rooms due to COVID. I feel like allowing for supervised practice in the meantime and requiring bar passage when it’s available is a happy medium and I’m not sure why it isn’t being suggested widely

There is no best answer for him other than his own. I initially failed out of a program that was supposed to assist working adults to get into law school. I wanted to give up but my wife would not let me. I worked hard and got into another law school. I have been practicing for over 10 years now. I can only grantee that giving up is never the answer. I have friends who failed the bar multiple times and they all have passed and have successfully law careers. My best advice to him is the advice I gave them "I blindly believe in him even more than he believes in himself". Remember that.

Every instance I have known of a failure to pass the bar exam was not due to any intellectual failure as far I can tell but rather, it seemed to me, to an emotional failure on the part of the test taker which prevents them — for some reason — from bringing the whole effort to a conclusion. If you cannot handle the very personal — but also fairly mild — stress of the bar exam, law practice may well not be for you. I liken such people to those who — for similar reasons — fail to pass the CPA exam or complete a PhD. Keep the bar exam.

I failed the Texas bar 3x, put everything on hold for 7 years, raised some babies, then I went and took the UBE in New Mexico and passed with a high enough score to be licensed in 34 states. So far I've only transferred my score to Texas which started accepting UBE scores December 2019. I HIGHLY recommend New Mexico for the bar. There's less than 200 people that take the bar during each testing session, so there's a lot less stress and less people. And I feel like the graders are not necessarily more lenient but fair.

Ultimately he needs to figure out why he wants to be an attorney. If he's giving up on his why then he may never pass. Studying for the bar is still no joke.

I went to a T3 law school, terrible grades, failed the CA bar the first time, passed the second time. Worked as a compliance analyst for 3 years, left to buy out a business from retiring baby boomers with my childhood friend, ran the company full time for 5 years, got to know the business very deeply, pivoted the business model to sacrifice short term profits for long term gains, then got a job working remote as in-house counsel (full benies, six figs) while still running the business on the side. It can be done. Tell your friend to keep trying. Bad grades and failing the bar just mean you’re bad at school stuff and prob way better at life stuff than all those nerds. [Jk to all you nerds ;)]

Can’t grasp the concept of how failing the bar after spending three years in law school is a blessing in disguise. Is private practice not the right move for many because it is hostile to poc, first-generation lawyers? The same lawyers disparately impacted by the mechanisms required to successfully pass a bar exam?

3rd time was the charm for me in my jurisdiction. I welcome any and all questions, comments, and concerns because the struggle is real. I also utilized both Themis and Kaplan courses if that helps.

Excusing from the Bar Exam due to Covid is a terrible idea. If this is the only challenge to overcome in life, count yourself lucky. Also, I was in the bottom 25% in law school and passed the California bar exam on the 1st try back when it was one of only two states with a 3 day exam. I have been a successful attorney for more than 20yrs. Law school and the bar are not necessarily predictors of success at the actual practice of law. The bar as a test is all about strategy/time management, speed reading and comprehension, and issue spotting. You do not get any credit for knowing the law. It is assumed you know the law after 3yrs of law school. Also, in real life you will be researching most of the time as you will frequently be unfamiliar with the subject matter. I don’t know if this is your friend’s problem, however, I noted in my bar review course that people who were slow readers had difficulty finishing the exam. I would recommend taking a good bar review course, like BarBri and talking specifically with the instructor about strategies for passing the exam..

Never give up. If you get knocked down, you gotta get back up with anything in life. What bar review was he using? What bar was it for? I imagine it’s not a UBE state, but maybe he should look for a different jurisdiction

I think many who struggle with the bar exam would nonetheless make excellent attorneys. I was more so asking if no bar exam at all is the best solution to logistical challenges posed by the pandemic to the regular bar exam administration.

The best alternative is to cut their losses and go make the same or more money for less effort. This field is wrong for most people who are actually in it, hence why most people don’t survive 10 years in private practice. Failing is a blessing in disguise for most

This is admittedly anecdotal, but I graduated from a WI law school and met the diploma privilege requirements (which mostly just requires you take certain courses). I practiced there for a number of years. I’ve since moved on to practice in other states that required me to take the bar exam. I can say that I haven’t noticed any difference between the quality or competency of attorneys I encountered in WI versus other states. I do not believe the bar exam proves that a candidate is competent to practice law. It tests a candidates ability to take a test, a skill that is very difficult for some individuals to master. I think it’s time to rethink the system.

That said, I don’t know that diploma privilege is the answer because there are some law schools that fails to adequately train students to think like lawyers. Maybe the ABA can work with schools to set minimum competency requirements and expand the diploma privilege.

I unexpectedly became a single mother to one-year-old twins during the winter of my final year of law school while also working full-time. I had already registered for the bar exam, but found myself without childcare and without the time or the funds I needed to take a bar review course. Needless to say, I failed the test. I was already working in a corporate law department making a decent wage (with benefits!), so I told myself that I would try again when I had the time and money - 10 years later I still have not tried again. However, I have found great success without my license, and the corporate attorneys I work with will tell you that I draft excellent contracts, so to hear it said that some people just aren’t cut out for the legal profession based on a single test is disheartening. Part of me feels like I didn’t really “finish” because I never got my license, and I think often about retaking the exam, so I understand having mixed feelings about diploma privilege. If it’s something your friend really wants to do, I would encourage him to try again. I had a friend who passed on the 6th try and now has a successful practice!

This is clearly a hot topic. The original question is whether diploma privilege (as I believe exists In Wisconsin) is a better alternative to the bar exam. I believe it has merit as the multiple choice part of the exam does not test practical competency, only the essay portion. And as to the question of multiple bar exams, it is overly presumptive to assume that one who performs badly, even multiple times is unfit to practice without understanding the circumstances. I know an excellent attorney who played pro football initially, turned to law as a second career and served on the state Supreme Court (third attempt was the charm) and another who had financial struggles (last financial crisis) coupled with family issues constantly distracting from focus on law studies but finished a B student and took the bar 5x before entering practice, and very successful today. Not to mention mental illness, the silent exam-killer.