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I always say “managed the time and priorities of a team of X engineers and one dedicated designer” on my resume because that feels more accurate.
Mentor
If you manage engineers or QA, you’re an EM, if you lead scrum you’re a tpm. Naturally both roles do prep you for PM, but I think I’m smaller orgs these roles do blend.
I mean… I see your point, but on several scrum teams I’ve been on, as a PO / PM or BA/PO combo, you are kind of leading the product / project, which includes daily/weekly/monthly decisions & meetings led where you are the SME & there’s really no oversight of that TEAM of devs & QA, except for you. As for saying you led a scrum team, if there is also a scrum master, then I don’t know if that would be accurate either… The devs or QA ppl on your team may have a different “boss” technically, but they don’t usually have anything to do directly with the team. Day-to-day, you are making the decisions on roadmap & such for the team - their boss may technically the say the head of technology, or some comparable role, but really the only time that comes into play is for their own personal development and/or pay. Or if they have an issue with the team/you specifically. So to say that the head of technology technically manages them… Yes, they manage their career and how they may get promoted (or not) in the company… often based on your own input and how your team is performing. So that seems a little bit of a complicated question… I’ve never had any dev/QA “boss” interfere with, or often really even be aware of the runnings of the team whatsoever. unless one of them wants to change teams. Seems a bit harsh to disqualify PM/POs based on that. You’re still guiding & leading the team on a daily/weekly/monthly/yearly basis & whatnot… you’re just not “managing” the individuals career / pay directly. As a line item on a résumé, I wouldn’t exactly disagree based on a verb… especially if they see their official direct report only in yearly evaluations… but if the verbiage bothers you that much, then ultimately it’s up to you. You could always have the individual clarify exactly what they mean by “manage” if you interview them. But I think there’s a difference between being a manager of a team and a direct manager of an individual person whose work you may see sporadically, but don’t have anything to do with their work other than assigning them to a team…
Mentor
How much of this is because of limited resume space? Tons of stuff I'd like to say differently, sentences I'd like to lengthen, lots of stuff I've worked on that doesn't make the resume cut, all because I only get 1 page.
Yep, and I don’t disqualify anyone just because of that, but if you’re a PM then it goes without saying that you’re an important part of a scrum team. An EM should also be doing a lot more than hiring and raises. They should also be coaching and “managing” the employee. Seems arrogant for a PM to say they manage employees when they really lead a product and everything that comes with that.
There is a difference between saying you led a team of X people as a PM which can be substantial. And, you are a lead. That is a legitimate claim. This is distinctly different than a claim that you had X direct reports. With most org structures being highly cross-functional this is important. I've led huge projects with hundreds of people while only having a handful of directs. This does nothing to diminish the scope or scale of the product and team managed which is usually the point of the CV bullet points. Pushing back on this will just rob you of some of the best talent because these types of leaders are the ones doing the most complex work.
What I’m seeing lately, though, is people saying they managed a team of 6 devs and they’re downright junior when I talk to them. I get what you’re saying.
NTA. They know if they’re making it sound line hard reporting lines when they’re really not.
You have to check the organization size before passing judgement. In many small to medium companies PMs directly manage designers, dev and QA resources. In my past startup roles and SMEs role I was responsible for end to end feature/product delivery from scoping to specs documentation to UX/Ui design to dev sprint management to QA and release planning ….
Separation in roles between PM/PO/SM is common in bigger organizations