Anyone else extremely concerned by the NFL’s stance on how to incentivise minority hiring a?

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More concerned that in a league where minority players make up 70% of players and minority head coaches are about 10%.

likesmart

“Let’s solve implicitly biased hiring policies that are discriminatory with...explicitly biased hiring policies that are discriminatory!!” It’s the same logic as affirmative action and as posters above have noted, rather than leveling the playing field such policies lead to questions of (assumed prior state) merit vs bias. You can’t solve bias by introducing more bias.

likesmartfunny

Ask the police if Nigerians are Black, goofy @Mck1...but I see. We’re akata, huh?

smart
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I’m always concerned when organizations add criteria that doesn’t have to do with merit to selection processes.

likesmart

M8 - D4 doesn’t understand the realities behind most things so I doubt he’d even register that as a fact. Probably has most views based on sound bites and blog posts. A2 has made one of the most rational and logical arguments I’ve seen around here on this topic and he’s done that without radicalizing the argument (kudos very Obama like).

Me on the other hand I’m very X-ish so let’s just say it plainly, there are two factors always at play in US society, power and money. I’ll sacrifice some of the former to gain more of the latter. The NFL is suffering from an image problem which is only getting worse as the handful of black coaches that came up in the 80s and 90s age out and the college game becomes more lucrative. This pandemic has impacted the NFLs core business (which is gathering large groups of people together and holding them captive for 12-18hrs a week) and there is a fear that even once this thing passes they’ll never get back to what they were. This means they won’t be able to generate the same levels of advertising revenue which means profits will be impacted. So this proposed move is just another of a long line of actions taken to protect and evolve the image of “the shield”. So yes they are willing to give the teams more power (ie draft picks) if they are willing to help with the image problem in order to make more money for the sport.

Accenture’s I&D efforts fall in a similar vein, we are willing to promote more women (and minorities) than our competitors because our clients want to see more diversity (ie women) from their suppliers. So white men will give up some power to make more money. That’s the capitalist game always has been always will be.

smart

Are you extremely concerned that minorities are underrepresented in leadership roles in virtually every industry?

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Goodell is absolute trash, so there’s that

likesmart

Totally useless

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I love it! This has always been my thought on diversity and inclusion. You have to make it real for people who wouldn’t care otherwise. Hit them where it counts. And this is that. It’s not hiding behind the scenes or some initiative that doesn’t have measurable results like most D&I initiatives. I love to see it.

And this doesn’t mean they’ll hire just anybody. It means they’ll hire qualified candidates who also happen to be minorities. And, once more minorities are in these positions, it opens doors for other minorities to come in organically.

I’m also tired of people conveniently ignoring the fact that mediocre white guys get a disproportionate amount of significant opportunities and then when people of color might get a piece of that pie everybody is suddenly all up in arms about merit. But didn’t give two shits about merit before they learned that some black and brown folks may be afforded the same opportunities. It’s phony. And this is why D&I has to be blatant and in your face. People like this don’t even know they’re part of the problem. They truly think they’re just concerned about merit even though the concern turns on and off depending on who’s getting the opportunities. Honestly, if a diversity initiative isn’t making people like that “extremely concerned”, then it’s probably not thorough enough.

likesmarthelpful

Might be a separate side conversation but saying Mike Tomlin has been mediocre for most of his tenure is absolute bullshit. He’s never been under .500, is 1-1 in Super Bowls appearances, and has the 2nd best winning percentage after BB. He went 8-8 this year with absolute scrubs at QBs. I don’t know what you were trying to argue, but saying that makes the rest of your argument automatically invalid.

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I wish it weren't necessary, but I understand and support it. Too many recycled coaches with poor records and overlooked black qualified candidates.

An old white guy here.

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Yes, there is a list. It was discussed widely on ESPN and even NFL TV, during the hiring process.

One problem the level below js that teams are more willing to promote blacks to DC than OC. But that may change as black QBs becomes older and get promoted from QB coach to OC.

smart

4/32 NFL head coaches are black. That’s literally exactly in line with the percentage of blacks in the USA. Why is there a problem there?

likesmart

M6 choose another example. Watson sure but Jackson doesn’t help your case bc he is very much a run first quarterback.

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Interesting that NFL is coming up with this now, if ever. It is a sport and folks are paid to perform - to win. Does it really matter that 70% of NFL player are of color? Does that mean blacks should coach blacks? The US population is about 12-14% black, NFL black coaches represent 9% now, not sure about GMs but assume fewer of them.

My opinion, this should only be about past, present performance.

In above reference to Tomlin, regardless of race he is a mediocre coach. Usually out-coached in most of his big games and the longer his tenure has gone, the team he built got more and more average. He has shown an inability to instill a true team atmosphere and the once ‘mighty’ Steelers have become a team of drama queens and fodder for a recurring social media circus. Puzzling why he is still there. Also, if you look closer almost 50% of Steelers entire coaching staff is of color so more than fair diversity representation under any measure. Seems compared to other teams, you would see more turnover based on lack of performance on this team.

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C2, settle down. You are wrong on number of SBs, I’m not an idiot, have been watching NFL all my life and in PA. Good?

If you understand the stats, Tomlin inherited a team of stars when he took the job and first four years were his best ones. He has been mediocre since then as he built ‘his team.’ He has a decent regular season record in that time but not so in getting to or winning in POs. He has a record of teams not preparing, lack of execution, lack of discipline. Those are coaching issues and that makes him average.

And yes, the Pats had an issue with Hernandez, one and done. The Steelers have had many but won’t take the time to educate you on that.

Point is, he is more like lower end of top half of coaches which makes him average. Do what you want with that but true and likely not still in his role with many of the other NFL owners.

Extremely? No. But I also don’t watch pro football.

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We don’t even have to look at schools. At work, minorities are shitted on regardless if we’re competent or not. Whites always find excuses and reasons to invalidate minorities and the default is diversity hiring and benefits.

They don’t realize that white privilege is a non-diversity hire and benefits in itself, in the form of being able to be mediocre and still be hired, promoted, and command huge salaries, raises, and bonuses.

Miss us with the bs and black people get the worst of it all.

likehelpfulfunny

Unsure how into the NFL people are, but this is meant as a revision of the Rooney Rule, which states that a minority candidate must be interviewed for open head coaching or senior football ops positions.

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Rooney rule is shit and needs to just be thrown away. Too many people use it as a “let me just tick the box” with 0% intention of hiring the candidate (i.e, Jerry Jones interviewing Marvin Lewis after firing Garrett, ML was not getting that fucking job).

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My 2cents. Out of all industries sports is one of the most accurate and deep when it comes to data gathered on player, coach and team performance. There should be a weighting of stats across key areas of game performance and role. Eg special teams coordinator gets less weighting than a previous head coach etc.

Then you have the softer angles which are wrapped up, but it becomes a lot more transparent.

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It’s sad but true that sometimes policies like this are needed to jump start change. As all have pointed out above, there’s an ugly side attached to it where POC will he assumed to have gotten the spot because of his color.

There is another side to as well that I’ve experienced directly. I was asked by my previous, F100 employee to find a candidate for a role from a very specific degree program i came from myself. Found a candidate (white/female) who was extremely interested and qualified. Response from HR was : “she’s great but we’re looking someone Hispanic.” Which, in my book, is the definition of discrimination.

Unfortunately, it’s such a complex topic and there are no magic bullets. Only thing that would work is an implicit bias on/off switch. Also, let’s not pretend that implicit bias doesn’t happen within minority communities as well ( Asians hiring Asians, blacks hiring blacks, Latinos preferring Latinos). It’s not intentional, it’s instinctive to go with the person you relate the most to

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Affirmative action - hilarious

funny

Must reiterate from the above comment^ 4/32 head coaches in the NFL being black is exactly in line with demographics of the country..... 70% of NFL players are black. Congratulations we’ve now come full circle as reductive idiots with race. Affirmative action is like the middle school equivalent of critical thinking

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i think it undermines minority candidates actually, because when they get the job folks will think it’s because of the incentive of the team got vs the minority candidates credentials.

Instead I’d propose following the Rooney Rule (Steeler shout out) - that basically says you must interview minority candidates for sr football operations roles and head coaching , even if there is no quota

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Nope. NFL hiring has been jacked up for as long as I've paid attention to the NFL, not surprised at all.

Well there goes my chance at being a NFL head coach or General Manager (said sarcastically)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rooney_Rule

Other controversial point. Over 70% of NFL players are black.

Should players be doing more to drive change at the coaching level?

PWC2, for coaches, bias is a lot more heavily weighted, the same way someone’s unconscious bias might play a role in deciding who to advance in a consulting interview. One of the main reasons garbage coaches like Jeff Fisher/Rex Ryan had chance after chance ruining multiple teams. There’s only so much racial bias you can have with players, you can’t go against game tape, 40 times, 3 cone shuttle times, and other combine tests. So I did not prove your point.

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