Anyone want to weigh in on the current debate/push to forgo the bar exam and grant this year’s graduates diploma privilege?

like
Posting as :
works at
You are currently posting as works at

All for it. Many of my peers had their post graduation job offers rescinded or placed on hold indefinitely, myself included. Many of us have crippling law school debt, and dutifully budgeted like every class before us to pay rent and feed ourselves with more loans through July. We studied for the July exam, even after getting offers rescinded or iced. We then were told to extend two months into September. Okay, inconvenient to restructure bar prep and a struggle to find another two months of extra funding, but sure. Wait! No! Actually now it’s October. And it’s a remote examination, no UBE transferability, using exam software that consistently fails unless it’s an exam that isn’t even the bar exam (Indiana had to ditch it altogether and do an essay online, open book, email us your answers exam instead). Even if the technology did work (it doesn’t), applicants must magically produce a quiet place for two days to take the exam (no noise permitted on threat of disqualification by pets, children, spouses, or shitty thin apartment wall neighbors), have stable and uninterrupted internet access, do MPT without any scratch paper, maintain eye contact with your screen and webcam the whole time, and, if you’re in the UK, piss in a bottle while maintaining eye contact with your personal remote proctor.

I understand the exam is supposed to be the last time honored hurdle of culling incompetency and proving you have what it takes to be a lawyer, but it does not do either of those things even in a good year. And requiring all of this during THIS year really puts an immeasurable burden on applicants other than those with wealthy families to support them, or even the few of us that still managed to get a position in this market.

Just let us practice. Put supervised practice requirements, additional CLE requirements, whatever, on us. But let us be admitted so we can get jobs and be useful and productive members of the legal community.

like

I’ve often struggled to see the utility of the current format of the bar exam. Seems a tough sell to claim it’s about “minimum competency.” Maybe decades ago when most attorneys worked in smaller settings and as generalists. But that’s now how law is practiced today. Why are we forcing transactional attorneys to memorize family law, property, and estate?? Why does a personal injury attorney need to memorize corporate formation. Someone is benefiting from this current system but it certainly isn’t the incoming crop of attorneys.

likeuplifting

WORLDSTARRRR

like

It's a real opportunity to reevaluate whether we really need the bar exam in the form it currently exists. Very exciting to finally get traction on this.

likesmart

I'm licensed in two states, never took a bar exam. I think the diploma privilege is perfectly acceptable.

like

All for it

like

I would only be okay with diploma privilege for some schools, like ABA accredited ones. There’s too many random law schools out there PUMPING people out as “lawyers.”

I also don’t think the bar exam evaluates your ability as a lawyer. But it does filter out some people that probably should not have gone to law school in the first place.

like

I didn’t learn a lot of the rules until I studied for the bar. Law school taught me how to think like a lawyer, studying for the bar taught me the basic legal structure. Should law school have done both? Sure, but it doesn’t and I went to a decent (Tier 1) law school.

like

Yeah...I went to a T14 and I learned a lot of actual law during the bar that I didn’t learn in law school. It’s one thing to argue that it’s current form is not useful, but I think it’s incorrect to argue that it has absolutely no utility or no place in the profession. Law school doesn’t teach you the law for the most part, and while you learn a lot on the job, studying for the bar has some utility.

like

In the spirit of law school competition, the bottom X% of each graduating class should not be admitted in accordance with that school’s historical pass rate for that state’s exam (i.e., if the school has a 98% pass rate, then the bottom 2% of the class should not be admitted). This is the only just solution.


...
Just kidding, who cares - admit them!

Related Posts

Has anyone had good experiences taking ashwagandha for daily stress?

like

Questions to ask the team that extended you a job offer? To better understand if this role aligns with your interest/career goals

like

When you're talking about travel at happy hour but you've been on the bench for 3 months

Post Photo
likefunny

Hello everyone,
I am looking for a job referral for a position in Pfizer. Any help leading to this would be appreciated.

like

Engineer 🐠

Has anyone personally learned how to build an AI based tool/ app - is it hard?

How does one source this type of talent?

likefunny

Favorite piece of work to come out of Chicago within the last year?

like

Lady 🐠 when you refresh you wardrobe how much do you typically buy per season?

like

Just promoted to senior at a big4. 2 years total exp. I got a recruiter from another big 4 telling me she wants me to come over for 140k!

Is this common? Is it bad to bounce?

like

Anyone have suggestions on where to find last minute vacation deals, ideally some kind of family friendly resort for this month?

likehelpfulfunny

First year M&A associate here. I have been constantly low on hours - billed about 600 hours since January. I keep asking for work and people know that I am available, never have turned down an assignment. Got a call from HR to set up a meeting. Is that a sign that they will be letting me go?

likehelpful

How to deal with quarter life crisis?

Most of us joined their first job after college with very high hopes (Like : Yeaah my job, I'mma be solving real world problems now).
Most of our jobs turned out to be not so impactful. (like rudimentary shoveling data into neat piles of PPT).
And we have to do this for life.
I can't seem to shake of the feeling completely even after almost 3 years into working.
(Normalise time to ~1.5 years due to distorted sense of time due to Covid)

like

Another International Trained Lawyer here looking for articles. Please open the doors for us. This is our passion too. I assure you, you'll not regret it.

like

Anyone looking for work? Mullen has positions open for senior PMs and a mid-level or junior

like

Is there anyone working for FedEx hyderabad? Wanted to check about the offer that I had.

like

If you work at a Big 4 L&E firm, what are your biggest gripes of the firm?

like

My facility want us to run Bipap on Med-surg floors. I don't think that is safe. It's one RT in the entire hospital.

like

I have a DUI in my records. My current employer doesn't know (and it's fairly new). In how far would it be an issue if I changed jobs? Europe here, but also interested in US views. Before anyone judges: yes, that was idiotic of me, I will not do it again, but please also be ensured that neither me, nor any other person got harmed (and also no object got harmed)

likehelpful

Do we always need to give all the rounds of the interview again irrespective of the fact that we had cleared all but one the previous time we appeared for the same company (could be 3 months or 6 months) ,or even if we had cleared all (but didn't take up the offer) , do we need to reappear again ?

like

Anyone who knows SQL want a job as a data scientist at a fast growing tech startup in NY?

Additional Posts in Big Law

Does anyone else find it annoying having to include the typical caveat when sending docs to the other side (subject to clients ongoing review/comment)? Why can’t it just be generally understood the caveat applies unless you explicitly state you’re signed off/the caveat doesn’t apply?

like

Hi boys & girls!

Joined a big firm (Big4) not long a go and starting to feel like I got a good grip on my current work.

I've always been very technical, so I think that the only thing I am missing now is making sales. (I really wanna make partner)

Can any seasoned lawyer share tips and materials (i.e. books) which can help?

Would it be a good idea to join a Social Club where potential clients spend time? (gym/tennis/paddel/events)

Any advice welcome!

like

I hate how billable hours are inextricably tied to your sense of worth/achievement in this job

like

I need 80 hours by the end of the month. I’m praying at the alter of the named partners.

likefunnyuplifting

Partners/counsels: have you been able to tell if your associate is not handling the whole WFH situation well?

like

What are reasons you would stop giving work to a newly minted second year associate? Stuck because people have never given me bad feedback but also don’t give me work. Transactional.

like

Anyone’s firm announced ways to help with the Afghanistan situation? Would love to hear details/ways to get involved if so.

like

Is anybody else burned out by just meeting your sub 2000 billing req? I’m not cut out for this.

like

REMINDER: December the 26th and Tuesday and the 2nd are Holidays. DO NOT SEND EMAILS THESES DAYS. Thanks!!
But seriously, so many clients and other firms keep mentioning these days to schedule something or calculate them as business days. Please stop so we can enjoy the earned actual days off.

likefunny

I appeared for a telephonic hearing to set a trial date but the judge and opposing counsel had no idea I had appeared because there was apparently another code you had to enter to unmute yourself.

like

Could someone please explain how your bio on the firm website works when you quit. Is the process different if you’re terminated?

like

Anybody own a classic or exotic car? What year make/model is it? Would you recommend it to others, or is there a different classic car you’d rather have?

like

This whole “finding clients” thing is 5 million times more difficult than I thought

like

I sometimes wonder what goes on under the skin of those "perfect, well-dressed, good-looking, high-performing, never-stressed" usually male attorneys. I get the impression that many are hiding things.

like

How early is too early to ask for feedback on an assignment?

like

HR just told me I have a week to get vaccinated or leave the firm. Any amlaw firms say vaccination is optional? Is there a thread for which firms allow attorneys in the office without vaccination?

funnylikesmartupliftinghelpful

Anyone have any thoughts/insight on Womble Bond? Obviously their COVID cuts were not great, but it seems like they rebounded. Particularly interested in comp & culture

like

Are you more likely to get guaranteed year end bonus if you lateral towards end of the year or does it not matter?

like

Based in Chicago, junior associate looking to transition back to public health or health policy job. Would be happy going to govt or non-profit (or a private org doing that type of work). Have been applying to everything I can find but no traction yet. Anyone have any leads?

like

1st yrs: I posted about quitting my job 3 months after starting (NY BL M&A) in 2021. When I started, I would sleep with my phone at full volume under my ear, never said no, and was on 10 deals at a time. Half of my head turned white, I developed high blood pressure, gained 20 lbs, and would get cold sweats and nightmares every night. I dreaded waking up and would count down the seconds until 2 am when it was acceptable to sleep. Fast forward to now, things couldn’t be more different. Cont. Below

likeupliftinghelpful

New to Fishbowl?

Download the Fishbowl app to
unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.
That was just a preview…
Sign Up to see all discussions
  • Discover what it’s like to work at companies from real professionals
  • Get candid advice from people in your field in a safe space
  • Chat and network with other professionals in your field
Sign up in seconds to unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.

Already a user?
Login here

Share

Embed this post

Copy and paste embed code on your site

Preview

Download the
Fishbowl app

See what’s happening in your industry
from the palm of your hand.

A phone with Fishbowl app

Scan your QR code to download
Fishbowl app on your mobile

Download app

Sign up for free to view this conversation on Fishbowl

By continuing you agree to Terms of Use and Privacy Policy

Already have an account? Log in

Sign up for free to continue using Fishbowl

By continuing you agree to Terms of Use(New) and Privacy Policy(New)
Messaging rates may apply

Already have an account? Log in

For account settings, visit Fishbowl on Desktop Browser or

General

Legal