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null

At least it’s not Deloitte 🤣 (Edit: this is 150k for a single individual, not HHI)

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likefunnysmart
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People in here have no concept of COL and wage creep. You need to make 500k to plan on retiring in 20 years with $2m.

$500k gross
$150k tax
$350k net
$30k/month
$5k/mo rent
$1.7k/mo Roth (assuming no back door)
$2k/mo school debt (wife, med)
$3k/mo school for children
$1k/mo cars + umbrella ins
$2k/mo groceries
$2k/mo takeaway
$3k/mo in misc costs (clothes, subscriptions, utilities, services, etc….)
$9-10k/mo in core savings — $100k/yr 20yrs $2m

I know I’m going to get hate for this but it’s reality for a lot of HCOL/VHCOL families. I’m sure i’m leaving something out.

Working a $500k job for 20 years is insane. There’s just a lot less of those outside of tech/consulting.

Roast me.

funnylikesmart

i am with OP on this

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My wife and I make 320k combined in Dallas.

After everything it nets out to 16-19k per month (my wife is commission so it varies)

Most of it goes away.

Rent: 3k (- this is cheap)
Student loans: 3k (although $1500 will go away next March!)
Childcare: $2500
Groceries + baby food: $2k
Cars: $2k (my vice is cars and I have an AMG which is $1400 but I have a side business that it’s paid for by)
Random baby shit: $500

I’m forgetting a bunch of stuff (utilities, internet, normal costs). But that leaves us with ~3k ish per month to cover those expenses + live a little.

But I do not feel like we’re in the 5% of all income brackets, which we are. Maybe when student loans go away?

I do 6% to 401k, 5% ESPP and max HSA. Wife does the same minus HSA due to normal healthcare

A 650k house with 50k down is going to, ALL IN, cost us $5k per month.

In the good school districts, a house that was $350-400k 2 years ago is NOW $650k and quite frankly they are WAY overpriced and that’s a hard pill to swallow.

All I know is 2 years ago, I could have lived like a king on our income, not anymore.

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MC1, that’s the goal post moving. Shelter has +1.5-2xed in many previously affordable cities.

Even if you had $0 car pmt, it’s way different to recover from/service a 25-50k car purchase (Camry or entry SUV) vs an 800k (+400k in last 2 yrs) house. This excludes childcare and servicing student loans.

Dallas is not considered HCOL, salaries are locally adjusted for previously lower costs, Frisco and Prosper are 90 mins from city center pre COVID. 320k HHI is a great income for the area and nationally. McKinney (nearby city) is cheaper by about 100k, but that’s still 700k for what was a 350k house a few years ago.

These higher prices requires much higher income (> 150k) to qualify for and service that debt. Property taxes and insurance on 800k house in NTX would also run 14-16k annually in addition to the mortgage. Aka, 150k income has a difficult time securing shelter in a safe neighborhood that enables the person to not rent. “Affording rent” is not upper middle class.

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Man I guess this bowl really is full of people unwilling to realize their privilege and admit that financially, they are upper class. Or they weren’t able to understand this is about income classes. I don’t know what I expected.

likefunnysmarthelpful

This thread is ludicrously out of touch. All sorts of people making solid upper class incomes (top 5 percent of earners in the US) saying "I can't be upper class because I still have to budget..". The definition is based on how you compare to others, not on what goods you think you deserve

likesmart

$150K upper class in HCOL. Lmao. I’m earning $300K+ in HCOL and can’t afford a single home. I don’t watch every dollar I spend but I definitely don’t spread it around without a care.
Upper class is like at least 750K+ here.

At a certain point, it ceases to really matter if it’s SINK or DINK or whatever. That’s when you’re upper class.

likefunnysmart

A5, at 1.2M, 5% down = 60k, leaves a mortgage of 1.14M, at 3% interest 30yr note is 4800/mo. Closing costs and realtor fees separate (which would be 40-60k additional to the original 5% down). Call it 120k to the table at close for just 5% down.

In VA (assuming NOVA), monthly net on 200k pa, net is 11.7k/mo before you pay any bills or savings. That leaves you with 6,900 / mo after mortgage. PMI is 1,900/mo (2% of loan/12 mos) You now have 5k/mo before you pay homeowners or health insurance, save in your 401k/savings/brokerage, food, car, go to the doc, turn your lights on, etc. It would be even less if you had to pay 2k/mo for childcare.

Interested to see how your actual numbers compare.

I think this is appropriate for this thread..

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likefunny

Definitionally - upper class owns the means of production. If you need to earn a living by working, you are not upper class.

likesmarthelpful

One would argue that given the power of capital alone today, net worth is a better stand-in than means of production. Purely dumping your money into the stock market will give you a decent return with relatively low risk. You just need to have a lot of it.

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I mean they’re not wrong. Making 90k in HCOL cities is considered low-income nowadays

likefunnysmart

Geez, people. The Privilege 🙄

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On the bright side, this post has kept me entertained for a very long time (and will probably continue to do so). On the other hand, it’s also caused me to lose a bit of faith in humanity (and in PwC1 in particular, who is spending $200/week on just infant formula and fruit)

likefunny

New dad

My baby has $43 per week of formula
$50 week of baby food

like

Given the thorough inability of many respondents on this thread to understand the difference between an income statement (HHI, expenses) and a balance sheet (net worth), I now get why I have to rewrite the decks coming out of my teams. Leaves me less time than I’d like to enjoy my upper class 0.5% lifestyle.😂

funnylike

Just check your percentile for income. I bet everyone here is at least 94th + percentile. So, shut up and agree that we’re all greedy 😝

likefunny

The government is deceiving y’all, middle class should start at 300k and upper class at 650k for married folks

likefunny

SSA1, do you think it’s your gen Z avacado toast and Starbucks? No, EVERYTHING is much more expensive. Some things are more accessible, but if you made an extra 5k, you could get Starbucks and a bagel everyday. Daily incidentals are not key drivers in economic mobility and financial security.

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Not gonna lie y’all making 250k combine income with wife but got 5 extra mouths to feed and their debts (2 sets of grandparents and 1 newborn) there ain’t much left to spend

Both our parents work blue collar jobs just to put roof over our heads and we’re their retirement because they have no savings.

My income says I’m rich but I certainly don’t have the money to show I am.

like

That's exactly what I'm saying. For those of us that don't have the luxury of just worrying about ourselves, when we have to look after our families, it isn't a lot.

Deloitterer here that’s about to lean into this one: in a HCOL area and if that’s household income (HHI) – two $75k earners or a single parent – that’s upper middle class, but not upper class.

If it’s a SINK (single-income, no kids), which is what I imagine when I hear these numbers, that’s upper class.

likefunny

Yep, good points - it’s SINK, apologies for not making it clear originally!

likehelpful

Middle class is 2/3 to 2x of median income. In a location like Bay Area, median single income is 90k or so. 2x of that is 180k.

likesmart

150k HHI no kids and 250k two kids is not drastically different while they’re still in daycare. Once they get to (public) school it will be different.

The whole point I’m trying to make is that income does no equal class. There are also plenty of people from wealthy families with moderate income but inheritances and such that are upper class.

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Lol this post. I spent most my life in lower/low middle class, figuring out how to stretch my two pants and four shirts to make it look like I had a whole wardrobe. Current HHI is 300k. No, we are not in HCOL but everyone here trying to say 150 outside of NY/CA/Pacific NW is not higher end is clearly delusional or doesn’t know how to spend money wisely. We have two paid off cars, I have substantial student loans I’m still working on (160,000), two houses, a child in daycare and child support for his daughter. We are very fortunate to not worry about money and definitely are still able to save. This is offensive to the hardworking people that can’t get ahead and are actually struggling.

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My opinion is class has to do with net worth and not income.

Someone earning 200K with a paid off house and 2M in investments and 50K in passive income is not the same as someone making 250K supporting a family of 4, 900K mortgage, 100K student loans and no savings.

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Agreed here but will add both have the choice of how they chose to live their life. A lot of people here went to expensive schools by choice, have 2-3 kids, have $100k cars, and live in pricey areas and then argue they’re poor.

They just chose to have a high expenditure life, which is their choice, but they shouldn’t act like this is normal.

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Peasants

funny

Shouldn’t you be Accenture Song 1 now?

likefunnysmart

Sure maybe if you live in a place like San Francisco or Manhattan. Idk about the other 99% of areas though.

like

Even in SF and NYC, if it’s individual income

https://www.pewresearch.org/interactives/are-you-in-the-middle-class/

likehelpful

Let me clarify since I realize this isn’t clear from what I posted (my mistake) - this is 150k for a single individual

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I’m at 120k in MCOL. do not consider myself upper class

like

Chicago isn’t mcol??? I’m in Tampa

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