{ "media_type": "text", "post_content": "BDO doesnt make their staff and seniors get email on their phones. Coming from Big 4, I’m finding it increasingly frustrating that these kids aren’t making themselves available.\n\nAm I just a jerk?", "post_id": "5c58c028453c2600135c75e4", "reply_count": 119, "vote_count": 14, "bowl_id": "564a5cdb94887803001dd07c", "bowl_name": "Accounting" }

BDO doesnt make their staff and seniors get email on their phones. Coming from Big 4, I’m finding it increasingly frustrating that these kids aren’t making themselves available. Am I just a jerk?

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As a staff at BDO (in what I’m assuming is a very different office), I do have email on my phone but do not have notifications set up to help with the work-life balance. None of my managers expect me to be checking emails after I leave work, and frankly, neither are they. I do check them once or twice after I get home at night now that it’s busy season to prepare myself for what might be coming the next day. Our busy season expectations are work the hours you need to work to get work done. Some of my reviewers work better later - I’m the opposite, but we communicate that and work things out.

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Pretty much exactly how it is where I am as well

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What BDO office are you at? I’m a second year, running jobs, and working till 11 each night, at the moment, same with most of my colleagues. Yes first years, usually sign off at 7 because work for them is slow then but everyone is basically working 12+ hours at day and 8 on Saturdays. I don’t know one senior that isn’t working late every night. I think you’re being a little harsh and unrealistic expecting staff to be at your beacon call. Most of us have multiple jobs going on at once and know that review points and work need to be done on your job but also have 3 other managers needing the same thing. We have to prioritize to get stuff done and clients issued on time so your points won’t always be answered as you’re reviewing that minute. That being said I f the senior isn’t even working late then it seems like your offices environment is that way. Which I agree is very weird and doesn’t make sense for busy season. So lighten up a bit and be understanding more but have a talk with the senior and tell them they need to start working a bit later each day to get the job done.

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I’ve been here 4 years and never got phone email. We’re all adults here, if someone really needs me they can text me.

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You left B4 to a mid-tier and now you expect them to act like B4? Why did you even leave then?

likefunny

It depends though because I have also heard the opposite where mid tier works less hours and culture is better.

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If it’s busy season, I expect a standard 55 hour week, or what it takes to get the job down (within reason, obviously...I refuse to make anyone work more than 65, if they volunteer that’s one thing, but I won’t demand it). But if they’ve done a 12 hour day and you are just now getting around to reviewing, that’s your issue, not theirs. A lack of planning on your part doesn’t constitute an emergency on theirs. They can clear it in the morning. If it’s not busy season, same rules apply except 5:30 is the cut off. Obviously, there are exceptions to every rule, but that’s what they should be, exceptions This attitude is exactly why people burn out and leave. Flexibility doesn’t mean they work your hours. I don’t expect my staff to check emails outside of work hours. However, I have called or texted staff with quick and simple questions if I have them, but never more than a 30 second answer and I don’t abuse it, so that when I call they know I tried everything beforehand not to. Stop putting big 4 expectations on middle market. We aren’t big 4 for a reason.

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Then you need to frame your argument that it’s busy season and the firm expectation is x number of hours. Because the way you framed your original question and a one or two of the follow up comments, the impression I (and several others) got is that you expect staff to be available 24/7 whenever you call and that is a thing of the past. The younger generation sees the value of a balance between work and life, and while I get frustrated with the sense of entitlement some have, I do understand the want of balance. I watch my parents work hard for 30 years, but I also know they never missed a single important event in my life. I want that too. And so do your staff. So do they need to have email on their phone? No. I don’t think so. But do they need to be responsible, hit their hours and get the client work done, yes. I agree with you that they do. But you can’t dictate that they have to work when you tell them do, rather you can say “this is firm policy and you need to hit these targets and if your working over the required hours to do so, then let’s talk”

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We have the option but it is not required. My life won’t be put completely on hold because my senior needs something from me at 11pm and I’m not on my computer. You have to set reasonable expectations and being available 24/7 shouldn’t be one of them.

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Accept that it’s not the culture and communicate when you need them to be available. Simple

likehelpful

When BDO pays for my phone, they can make me download things to it. Until then, no, this “kid” isn’t going to stick company VPN spyware onto my personal device. You want me to be available 24/7? Pay for it.

likefunny

We are not required to have email on our phone but most have it. I had it for a year or two and then decided it wasn’t worth the pressure. Instead, I check email from outlook web a few times over the weekend unless I’m expecting something to come in (I’m a senior). Assuming you’re in audit or tax, I think you should communicate with your team that they should check email over the weekend if you will need them. If not, let them relax for a day or two a week without thinking about work. It will benefit your team in the long run

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OP I don’t understand, are they leaving at 5:30 everyday or just Friday? If just Friday, geeze, cut them some slack. Our office Is a ghost town at 6pm on Friday. It’s called keeping your Sanity. You just seem to be giving us piecemeal info about your situation when you don’t get the answers you want to hear

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Does BDO pay for cell phones at the associate and senior level? If not, then I wouldn’t have email on my phone, either.

likefunny

Office by office

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OP I think you need to get with the times. I mean that in the nicest way but we are no longer at the beck and call of partners

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Lol

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PwC doesn’t make you get email on your phone. For that matter they didn’t make you get a phone but since we are going mobile only I guess that will change. Each persons availability after hours is there decision. I work remotely and try to stay available to support teams Personally during busy season if I am awake I will reply. Outside of busy seasoning am available 6 AM to 7 PM Mon to Thurs. Friday afternoon good luck finding me.

likeuplifting

BDO14. In addition to WiFi boost PwC has added cell tower boosters in most offices.

Most people probably have it, they just aren’t going to respond when they’ve left for the day

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When I leave work, I leave work. I was extremely responsive to all contact at any time of day at one place and it got me nowhere. So now I don’t. I don’t let work stress ruin other hours of my life. It gets the hours I put down for time

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You joined a new firm and need to blend with their culture. If they wanted to experience the culture you’re coming from they’d go to the big four.

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It might be busy season but their still has to be a work/life balance. This is the office culture YOU opted into. Deal with it. If it bugs you that much let the staff and seniors on your engagements know that from *date A to date B* Iyou are expected to be available later than 5:30 to ensure works gets accomplished on a timely basis.

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I’m with OP - I don’t expect people to be available 24/7 but I do expect people to be reachable. I don’t find it professional to text people about work

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OP sounds like you didn’t make expectations clear. I have never had my associates push back when I ask them to hop back online because I’ll need them to clear points when I finish reviewing at 730. I just don’t expect them to wait around with no work just so they can clear my review comments because that’s all kinds of crazy power tripping I am not into. People also check in with me before they leave for the day if they have a project with me during busy season, so if your staff is not doing that you should make that the expectation.

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Company doesn't pay my bill. I have offered many times to manager and partner to text me in an emergency. Beyond that on my off time I do not tie myself to my work email on the off chance someone may have a question. If it is important I expect adults to know to pick up the phone and call me...

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OP, doesn’t seem like a mid tier/big 4 issue to me. Seems to just be an office culture issue where they’ve been allowed to get away with the bare minimum. I still don’t think they should need to have email on their phone but they should be putting in the time as needed.

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Big 4 senior here retraining from another industry, was ex manager/supervisor level. Why do people need to be contactable at all hours. Audit is not a 24hour operation like a nuclear power plant. No one is going to die. If you need information all the time, there and then. Might have something to do with how organised you are... I do not make myself available 24/7, and i do not have that expectation of others only in exceptional circumstances. None of my partners/ directors or senior managers have asked this of me, even though we get phones from associate grade.

likesmart

Been in both big four and regional firms. If firm does not pay for phone, I am not checking email on my phone. But feel free to call me. Partners at the firm that did not pay for cell at any level understood and they texted or called me as needed. If seniors are not doing what they need to do, ie not clearing notes and missing deadlines, that is not a phone issue. That is a work issue. If you need to walk your dog, pick up kids at day care, whatever, by 5:30, go ahead. But log back in later. You are a senior in busy season. Long hours are part of the deal

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