{ "media_type": "text", "post_content": "Came across this today. I am a woman that is often described “direct, blunt, with aggressive working style etc.” (to my face). Do you agree that men who are more assertive or have aggressive working style are perceived more openly and accepted by the society more than those who are women?", "post_id": "5f6a30eff4034b00251656a1", "reply_count": 119, "vote_count": 154, "bowl_id": "552d1d24dc1c586b09d2d051", "bowl_name": "Consulting", "feed_type": "crowd" }
null

Came across this today. I am a woman that is often described “direct, blunt, with aggressive working style etc.” (to my face). Do you agree that men who are more assertive or have aggressive working style are perceived more openly and accepted by the society more than those who are women?

Post Photo
likefunnyhelpfulsmartuplifting
Posting as :
works at
You are currently posting as works at
Highlighted IconHIGHLIGHTED

Corporate Woman here! The problem with today’s corporate culture is that when we expect equality , everyone else expects us to be identical to men. Our work style , clothing , physical capabilities are expected to be identical to men. When ambiguous women aim success , they consciously and unconsciously try to mimic manly behavior. The society and culture are unable to accept a feminine , gentler , subtler human being who’s equally capable as someone successful. Our mindsets need to change and women should not have to turn into men to be successful or considered equal!

like

Mindsets would only change when a new style proves itself to be successful. The world isn't going to change itself to accommodate suboptimal configurations just because it's the woke thing to do, and this is how it is for many many things, not just feminine and masculine styles.

Global economic trends change and one region, which used to be competitive, becomes destitute as it loses its competitive advantages. Nobody is going to care to spend resources to make every region equally competitive on the global market because it's the woke thing to do.

I've definitely faced this, and there is a lot of research that backs up this phenomenon. As a successful woman on the fast track, it's been unavoidable. I typically will confront people if they make a comment to that effect because it's the only way to make change occur. When I was in my early 20s, I let it go because I was afraid of the repercussions. However, the older I get the less I care, and I've actually found most people (though I'm sure not the people being confronted) respect me more for pushing back.

like
Recent IconRecent

Wow. A bunch of men missing the point on a post about gender equality. How surprising.

likefunny

Thinking in groups like you do doesn't reflect well on your critical thinking nor on your employer

Frankly it’s not fun with either of you. Be a person come on. We’re your employees not servants.

like

I think an 🍑 🕳 is an 🍑 🕳 regardless of their sexual reproductive organs. But that’s just me.

likesmartfunny

The flip side of this cartoon is that when men are considerate and helpful people think they are *amazing*. When women are considerate and helpful...it’s just expected.

We expect men to be independent and individually ambitious. We expect women to be collaborative and support the group. So the evaluation criteria men and women face is wildly different, for both nice and less-nice behaviors.

likesmart

I may be in the minority but I prefer managers who are direct with their requests and blunt with the appraisal of my work.

Then again, I’m an adult without much of an ego.

likehelpful

According to the sociological literature:

-disagreeable women do better than agreeable women

-disagreeable men do better than disagreeable women

likesmarthelpful

I should have included that disagreeable women do better than agreeable men.

These are statistical averages of course and shouldn't be interpreted as judgements or evaluations of any individual.

It’s scientifically proven that the meeting the range of acceptable female behaviours in the office is basically walking a tightrope. The women who are better at not being themselves and basically “acting” day to day to be what people want them to be (assertive, kind, warm, cold) and can be chameleons are actually the most successful. Women who are “themselves” don’t do well in their careers. Men don’t suffer the same fate and basically can be raging sociopaths or animal loving vegans and everything in between and society accepts their ambition and promotes them.

like

Descriptive vs prescriptive guys.

Descriptive: Research has found trends in how men and women are treated in the workplace

Prescriptive: You're a women so you are like this

While prescriptive statements are stupid, discussing trends based on research isn't

like

Equality is good and all that jazz, but it comes naturally for men. For women doing this I perceive feels typically inauthentic and trying to compensate. Women trying to replicate results may find more success not copying men and instead coming up with their own management style

likefunnyhelpful

The problem I have with BAH’s post is “it comes naturally for men.” It’s stereotyping all men as being the same type of manager in the comic above, which certainly isn’t true, and it’s stereotyping women as saying none of them are *naturally* like the type of manager above, which also isn’t true. Men and women are all different - they’re all people. If BAH had just said, “PEOPLE need to be authentic and true to their innate, individual management style, whatever it may be, they’ll be more successful,” I would agree. But BAH one suggested the genders have the same gender stereotypes we’re all used to, that all men and all women apparently should manage the same way along gender lines, so they completely lost me.

like

Both of these examples are assholes and you shouldn’t aspire to be either of them regardless of gender.

likeupliftingsmart

Guy here. 100% I think this is generally the case. Anecdotally, my girlfriend and sister are both consultants with similar assertive personalities to my own, and it just seems like they always talk about having to tiptoe team cultures whereas I don’t have that experience much.

likehelpful

Or thank you for your lack of awareness 😂

I see two equally poor managers

likeupliftingsmart

Or maybe this is just a narrative people keep perpetuating.

likefunny

There’s a lot of research into unconscious biases, related to gender but also race.

like

What does a vaccine manufacturer have any business making comics?

likefunnysmart

*get to

like

If I’m being honest, the fact that she’s saying that with her eyes closed vs. the guy who’s eyes are open makes a big difference to how I perceive assholeishness here.

likefunny

possibly. i think this occurs because women can be mothers, who are stereotyped as nurturing and understanding, whereas men can be fathers, who are thought of more frequently as gruff and results-oriented.

so a woman behaving in this way is perceived outside the norm, whereas a man behaving in this way isn’t. the implication, then, is that a woman who behaves in this manner is acutely disappointed/frustrated, because what else could cause her to not be understanding? whereas this is somewhat more expected behavior from a man. so a woman behaving in this way triggers a more anxious response in people.

likesmart

This is a really wise comment and I do think this underlying subconscious tie of women to motherhood and thus aggressive women to more frustrated women is valid. Maybe on a subconscious level we feel more unsettled when caregiving “mom” is responding as if threatened (adrenaline in a woman evolutionarily likely was triggered less often than in men, who were out hunting more). Makes sense our anxiety increases more when “mom” is upset to the same level as we expect only “dad” to be.

likehelpful

I would agree anecdotally.

I’ve never heard my male peers (reporting to the same boss) get told they should “smile more” and yet that was always my biggest “opportunity for improvement” in my year end review for years. I’ve been criticized for not making my male direct reports “feel special enough” whatever that means.

Could be confirmation bias or maybe it’s true.

likehelpful

I’m a guy and I’ve gotten this feedback over and over. Not saying it is systemic or a gender bias in my case nor am I stating that it is not that in yours, but it’s equally annoying to the individual.

Crazy! It’s almost like the author is pushing a narrative

like

Well women are more like waffles and men are like pancakes so you can’t expect the same result

funnylikesmart

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/women-ernst-young-how-to-dress-act-around-men_n_5da721eee4b002e33e78606a

Hmm. I say their both a$$holes. I’d try to avoid working with either. Though, I’ve only ever had a guy respond like that.

On gap, for the same role, Ed, and YOE, I think the 20% is high. If I recall, 2%-5% is more accurate.

The pay gap stat doesn’t factor those equalizers in and but the stat got quoted incorrectly as accounting for those by Obama back in the day.

Obviously, over a career, there’s a compounding effect even at 2-5%, though...

like

Both are assholes I probably wouldn’t want to work for.

like

It’s the delivery and body language. Most communication is nonverbal so if you’re being called aggressive it’s likely less what you’re saying (which could be the exact same as what a man is) and more how you’re saying it.

likesmarthelpful

It’s not though D4 - the yardstick for men vs. women is incredibly different.

like

Additional Posts

Interviewing with Project Ronin and would appreciate any insight from others who work there, have in the past, or familiar with the company. TIA

like

Guys, I hv about a month remaining in my notice period. By this time, I hv a couple of good offers at hand. Recently received a call for Thoughtworks. I was informed that there will be around 2-3 tech interviews of up to 2 hrs each. Is Thoughtworks worth it? Best offers I hv are from Nagarro & Dassault. Don’t really see a point in giving such elaborate interviews unless it’s for Google or Amazon. Please share some thoughts. I hv been thru some long & tough interviews and want to slow down now.

likehelpful

What would a salary expectation be for a area Vice President (responsible for 5 direct reports, 3 client sites, and new sales) for a staffing agency? 4 years of staffing&sales experience + 3 years marketing

On average what is the raise for a BKD associate from year 1 to year 2 percentage wise?

like

Anybody actually had any success resolving issues at work that are clearly rooted in bias but because they are microaggressions they are just dismissed or explained away as something else?

likesmart

Any 🐠 with insight on BCG in Dubai?

likehelpful

If anyone knows a place, looking for a referral

Post Photo
likefunnysmart

Dear Friends,
I have joined TCS 4 days Back, now i got offer from Cognizant (which were stuck for BGV now get cleared ) with 5 lacs more than TCS. So if i Abscond TCS now so will TCS take any disciplinary action, or block me for others companies too??
Or if i Put resignation then how many days of Notice Period i have to survive.
Please tell me any alternative any good way which will not harm my career. And if the answer will be abscond then do i need to just inform them over email

like

Coming to the realization that I'm not cut out for NYC or IBD. Anyone know what kind of jobs pay 100-120k all in for 40-50 hours a week? Ideal location would be West Coast

likefunny

Flying on United with decent status but low fare class. #1 on upgrade list, but upgrade wouldn't clear until boarding. One spot left in first class. Plane delayed, someone grabs spot while I'm in line

like

Has anyone done this: go to a bank. Throw EY a ton of consulting work. Then move there as a Direct Hire Partner.

likefunny

New to Fishbowl?

Download the Fishbowl app to
unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.
Download Fishbowl to see what others are saying
That was just a preview…
Sign Up to see all discussions
  • Discover what it’s like to work at companies from real professionals
  • Get candid advice from people in your field in a safe space
  • Chat and network with other professionals in your field
Sign up in seconds to unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.

Already a user?
Login here

Share

Embed this post

Copy and paste embed code on your site

Preview

Download the Fishbowl app

For account settings, visit Fishbowl on Desktop Browser or

General

Legal