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Today is the kickoff for Well-Being Week in Law, which is about raising awareness around mental health and encouraging action and innovation across the legal profession to improve well-being.
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How hard is the path from lit to GC?
Chief
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The only two associates I’ve known to get fired 1) came drunk to work (in the morning) and 2) lied abt taking the bar exam.
I second this. I’ve only seen one associate get fired. I wasn’t at the firm at the time, but he showed to court unprepared and smelling of alcohol. He was given three paid months off to address the concern. Came back and was constantly hungover in the office (at that point, I worked there.)
At will employee means you can be fired whenever, for whatever. If your firm wants to let you go, they’ll find a reason to. And if they want to keep you, they’ll overlook a lot.
some fears are not irrational especially if you work for psychopaths and narcissists who have their knife in for you...I resigned just in time after a plethora of redflags that the head of litigation wanted to get me fired because she did not like me.
Someone at my firm got fired this year bc it was clear he lacked social awareness and as he fell asleep at his desk and at group meetings constantly. You’ll know if you messed up and it’ll have to be pretty bad - don’t worry!
@ass9 if you want to be fired or looked upon strangely - just question management on how things are done at the firm. That will get you pushed out quickly...nobody likes people who think too much or who make them look at their own business.
From what I have seen, attorneys at law firms get pushed out over several months to a year or more. Basically, people stop giving them work until they finally get the hint to leave. In some ways it is crueler than just firing, but at least you have time to look for another job.
@Att3 I second that...it is like high school... for sure. You would guess educated people would act differently...
I work in a big law transactional practice. And like others have said, I don’t think a mistake itself (even a big one) would get you fired. But to quell your general anxiety about making a mistake, I will say this - everyone is going to fuck up, it’s inevitable. But I think the diffrentiating factor is whether you take ownership of it and handle it maturely, as opposed to someone who tries to hide it or blames others. But prolly also depends on the type of partners you work for. Mine are tough but fair (and will always have my back). If yours are assholes, then maybe getting fired would be a blessing in disguise? :)
Try to be clinical about it. If worrying isn’t going to help you do something productive (billing more bc you think you’ll be fired), then put it behind you. You’re more likely to get fired because you’re in your head and freaking out. Calm down, do the best you can, be positive, helpful, upbeat, eager to please, and if it doesn’t work out, you’ll get a new job—probably with higher pay.
I agree with Counsel1. Also, firms generally don’t fire someone on the spot. There is a long lead up and slowing of work. If you have had the bad luck to work for someone who gaslights you’re and has the power to fire you out right you need to move. The work creates enough stress on its own - you don’t need to be constantly worrying if today will be your last.
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Here are some of the reasons the firms gave associates that have been fired at firms I have worked for:1) poor work product (no examples given); 2) position eliminated or cut backs; 3) drunk while at work (person had just gone through horrible divorce and was going through custody battle); 4) failure to bill minimum. Real reasons: retaliation, gender discrimination, freeze out.
preach... the most vindictive people I have seen so far ... lawyers with big egos and trying to cover up their mistakes by a large staff turnover - as a result their companies close down or they never see any improvement in their own business. Some like to gaslight themselves.
When I feel this way, I try to amp up the communication with managing staff. Offering to help with specific projects or research face to face almost always produces a stronger working relationship (if you can't do this, try utilizing the messaging software of your firm rather than just straight email). Don't let yourself feel in the dark about how your coworkers view your willingness to learn and grow with the firm.
Chief
It depends on what kind of firm you work for. In biglaw a first offense would only get you fired if it was spectacular - something like getting drunk at the holiday party and groping a partner. Otherwise you have a lot of runway. I could imagine a mercurial SOB in small law flying off the handle and firing you for a minor mistake, but have to believe that would be incredibly unusual.
More broadly we all make mistakes all the time. Learn from them, don’t repeat them, and forge ahead.
I have been an attorney 30 years and I don’t recall an associate ever getting fired for making a mistake.
I only have one anecdote. Someone at my firm was pushed out after 1.5 years at the firm. The work this associate did was terrible from day 1 until the day he left and many chances were given to improve. It takes a lot to get fired and even if you do, you get months of lead time to find another job. Barring anything else mentioned in the thread (e.g. discrimination), you’ll know if you’re not doing well.
It completely depends on your firm - I think most people usually have an idea things are going well though. Are you getting impression from your managing partners that they aren’t happy with your performance?
I’ve only seen one associate fired in the past couple years and it was for insubordination.