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Of course he did
Joe Biden has received the endorsement of the leader of the Revolutionary Communist Party (RCP).
This endorsement makes a lot of sense seeing his planned taxation and spending policies. New running mate candidate, perhaps?
https://www.cnsnews.com/article/washington/andrew-davenport/revolutionary-communist-party-leader-calls-people-vote-joe
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So help me understand how forgiving student debt keeps the economy going….. we take on more debt at the federal level pumping up the money supply and we reduce incentive for people with debt to work and contribute to the economy.
Rising Star
Bezos having a ton of money doesn't directly impact my saving rate. There are a *lot* of intermediary steps you need to go through (with specific, novel policy objectives and perfectly achieved outcomes) before that line of reasoning makes sense.
Don't get me wrong: we should tax the ef out of the ultra wealthy. But, taxing Bezos and Musk at 90% so one third of that can go to the military budget doesn't do much for anyone's savings.
At least as it relates to a productive, policy oriented discussion, your logic doesn't follow. I'd recommend reading up on the topic and coming back when you have more info.
Conversation Starter
Totally understand many points above... student loan debt is crippling, disproportionate impacts minorities and no I don't think if your debt is forgiven, I should get anything because I already paid mine off. HOWEVER, how does canceling debt solve the problem. New students will just take on new debt and we'll be here again in a few years. Why is no one talking about the "cost" of higher education?
Or the issue that the cost does not create earnings growth to cover the debt, ever. Minting graduates unable to pay, ever.
Pro
I’ll never get behind canceling student debt. It’s treating adults like children. And personal responsibility is obviously a long dead concept in the US.
Also, I assume we will reimburse people who paid back their loans (I know we aren’t)….
Rising Star
Maybe 'counterarguments' wasn't the right word since your initial position is that you will personally never understand something. Really, they were a handful of well known examples of the government throwing money at companies that got out over their skiis, which is basically your initial complaint with student debt.
That you didn't take exception to them all clearly leaves some room for you to 'understand' why forgiving student debt could be a good thing - there can be times when a social good (like freeing huge numbers of people born after 1980 from life-altering debt in pursuit of intangible skills that may or may not be marketable) can outweigh what you personally think is fair concerning responsibility.
Pro
Follow up: what’s the logic behind trillions in corporate bailouts & zero accountability?
Pro
The government readily has the authority to cancel/forgive federal student loans. It would be a major government overstep(and probably unconstitutional) for them to cancel private debt.
Pro
Not my area of expertise so this is my personal opinion based on what I’ve read:
- Student loans from the government can be predatory. There are basically no requirements to get one and are connected to insane prices from universities since said universities can count on the gov’t to hand out loans like candy. If universities had to be the lender, they’d charge far less and ensure their students would be well positioned to get jobs to pay it back.
- Similarly, some housing loans in the previous bubble were predatory, did not require any type of proof you could repay it (or very little), and were a bait and switch in some cases.
I’d say both types would be ripe for cancellation debate (not a general swath of forgiveness but at least a possibility of investigating the requirements and practices of lending).
Are credit card companies any different? Bad credit? No problem, we’ll just give you a higher interest rate!
Student loans are a fraud against hardworking, well intentioned citizens. Compound interest is a killer on those loans and colleges do very little to ensure jobs after graduation.
Healthcare bills should be forgiven too for obvious reason.
The cost of a college degree in the US, just like the cost of healthcare, is insane.
I graduated as a software engineer in 2009 with $30k in debt for a five-year program. Minus a 20% bonus for early repayment and I had it all covered a year out of school.
Here a similar course would be what… 10x that?
Insane.
There's been no interest for a year and half. The people that didn't spend this time paying down their principal because they thought it would get canceled can kick rocks.
PwC3. Isn't the purpose of that expensive degree to enable you to get an essential job which would have kept you gainfully employed the entire time?
Pro
May be people should ask for canceling interest on student loan vs canceling the whole loan. Canceling principal does not make sense. What about those people who paid on their own or those who have already paid their loans, it would be unfair to them
Rising Star
K1 it's a great idea and one that is likely to come up on the table in Congress. I think almost everyone calling for loan cancellation would support a zero interest option instead - the main problem is the absolutely insane interest rates that can make even a responsible borrower wind up underwater. It's an absolute motivation-killer to watch the majority of a payment get eaten up by interest while the principal remains untouched.
The push to forgive these debts points out a lot of bad parenting and education prior to kids entering college. Parents didnt teach them to be responsible for their decisions. Parents didn't sit with the child and explain the long term impact of taking the loan. HS failed to teach anything related to life skills and hyped college over all other options. And universities ramped up tuition costs knowing the fed would provide the loans. No one should have been able to walk into this blindly if parents and schools had done their jobs. But reality is you signed a contract and should be held to it.
KPMG2. I think you need to get out of your bubble and actually research what some of the trades pay. A friend recently graduated a 2 year tech school to be a Volvo mechanic. Volvo paid for all of it. His starting pay is $100k a year and he was guaranteed a job by Volvo.
The same goes for many other non college options. But schools and the media spend almost zero time telling that to high school students.
There is no logic.
Rising Star
Student debt is an albatross around the neck of the young and is having negative second order social effects like reducing the birth rate and decreasing home ownership among the young - which has historically been a vehicle for middle class wealth accumulation.
'Fairness' with regard to those that paid in full isn't important because fairness isn't an objective. The government needs to keep the economy going, and this would be one tool to do it. Other tools would be curbing healthcare and childcare costs, changing zoning laws to allow mixed use and high density development, and incentives to move out of expensive cities.
And we cheapen the value of education overall.
Yep, this is true PWC 3. I think the college model needs a serious change. 4 years of school vs a strong, focused certification.