Can we be honest for a second? No one has a clear policy for how we should be billing our time and no one wants to ask. I’ve heard perspectives ranging from, “a good faith estimate at the end of the week is sufficient” to “you need to have a timer going at all times and if you don’t turn it off when you pee, you’re committing an ethical violation”... also, “Bill anything that moves the deal forward” vs. “You can’t bill for collating documents. That’s not legal work.”

likehelpful
Posting as :
works at
You are currently posting as works at

Nobody has ever spoken to this clearly over my whole career, other than to say you should just record it all as you go and bill it. That is pretty easy for some who just work on one thing all day. My practice, in contrast, involves dealing with multiple, overlapping things all day, and it is a huge pain in the ass. Not unusual to have 20 different things or more I record to each day, in addition to all kinds of nonbillable things. For example, I will be trying to edit a document and will have someone “drop by,” will have multiple emails coming in all the tome I have to dispose of, will get calls (random and scheduled), etc. I have to try to track it all day.

like

In related news, the sky is blue and the earth is round (disputed).

When you find out that everyone has liquor in their drawers (shock!) and your colleagues are hooking up at 3PM (the horror!!!!!) you'll freak out

funnylike

That is because in many instances there is a gulf between what the firm wants and what the firm feels like it can say. More billable time is always good, what matters more is how you present it to the client than any specific rule of thumb.

likehelpful

A4, I’m with you here. I just find it funny how anytime someone mentions value billing on one of these threads, the responses basically accuse the author of any ethical violation on par with witness tampering

like

Yes!!!!!! It’s all fake!!!! How can every 6 min reflect equal focus, value, work product???????

like

A1, billable hour was not always there. Firms used to send a bill that wasn’t related to time but value. I am a boomer and this was before my time; the senior partners when I was a junior talked about it. I don’t know why the transition happened. Of course that was also a time when lawyers were very comfortable but not rich. your frustration with billing is directly related to the comp we all get.

helpfullike

The billable hour came into vogue based on an antitrust case in the legal profession when “everyone” started billing the same “value” for the same “product” like a fixed fee Will. Billable hours as a method of billing was thought a way around that but has had its own unintended consequences as “hours” became the raw standard for evaluating lawyer performance instead of “value” and the bean counters started to analyze them. Billing attorneys have always “adjusted” hours/bills for clients (like failing to send invoices or writing invoices up/down and setting rates based on experience and skill and offering discounts or negotiating for premiums) so “value” billing is is some contexts “more honest” in its approach. Many clients used to keep their “regular” firms on retainers. We do a combo of fixed fee, retainer or “value” depending on the context. We also do good work. Electronic billing, designed to wring out the gamesmanship of the billable hour (and $20 danish), is for the birds.

It often varies from client to client

likehelpful

(Although, someone once told me it doesn’t matter. Clients are paying your rate so that when everything is a fire drill you’re able to handle in the best/ fastest way possible- they’re paying you for 3am not 9-5)

The billable hour has been there since the dawn of time and it will still be there long after we're gone. We're not reinventing the system

likefunny

Related Posts

Our firm is looking for hiring managers, Senior and directors in various fields of tax. If anyone is interested happy to introduce you to our recruiting team.

like

Hi Fishes,

Anyone from ey or pwc who can provide referral today?

like

Infosys is hiring in ms dynamics and .net
Immediate joiners will be given high priority.
If interested please dm

Post Photo
like
like

Hey folks! Anyone here from Uberflip ? I applied for the junior software engineering role. Would love to chat, if anyone's willing to. Thanks!

like

Hello Fishes , I am currently looking for a job in Python Developer role. I have knowledge of SQL, Oracle db, also worked previously on Django for short time. Currently working with Python on VM management.
Total YOE : 5 years
Location:Pune
Thank you Deloitte EY Accenture Wipro Cognizant Capgemini KPMG Oracle

like
upliftinglike

Hi All, How many days do I need to wait to receive offer letter from @ Wells Fargo. I have submitted all required documents. How can I know the status?

like

Are there any entry or associate level Product /Project Manager jobs hiring right now?

like

About how many deals do y’all work on in a year?

like

Hi All

Got offer from
UST Global Bangalore location as developer 3 .What should I expect from the company...? The Glassdoor and ambitious box review are good while review in other place are just opposite (very bad reviews). Please help as will be joining at the end of this week

like

What is the hike scenario at Oracle India in the Application development unit (APPS) for a fresher? I was hired on campus.

I am planning to start with Google's Cloud Digital Leader (CDL) certification and later will move further for Associate Cloud Engineer Certification. But upon searching on the internet I couldn't find any jobs that require CDL, mostly starting with Associate Cloud. Since I don't have any experience in Cloud and to start with Associate Cloud I need to have at least +6 months of experience on Google Cloud.
I would really appreciate if anyone can guide me in this.

like

Anyone want to do Turkey / Lebanon around Thanksgiving?

like

Can we use our wageworks card to load the EZ Pass in NY/NJ. I keep getting an error message

Recently talked to a recruiter who said their paid social planners only plan the media and out sources their buying to another agency. That’s not very common is it? I have always done both.

Hi Fishes,
I got an email for an opportunity - Senior Subject Matter Expert/Catalog specialist III
Amazon . Can anyone suggest if this is for L3 or L4? What should I expect in the interview rounds? And how much can I expect as the salary?

like

Hi fishes,
Please help me how to focus on work🙏
I get to know that
Many of resources who joined with me are having less exp than me hired for high CTC and post.I got low balled.
Now juniors are coming to me for help having post and CTC higher than me.I'm not judging anyone but they have no proper knowledge of technology earning almost double than me.
I'm not able to focus on my work due to this.

like

There are multiple job openings at Pegasystems right now. DM me for a referral.

like

Additional Posts in Big Law

Currently in big law employment lit department, but interested in potentially doing government-side work in the future. Is it common for attorneys to go from big law to the EEOC, state departments (like CA DFEH), or DOJ Civil division (employment)? Or is there usually a step in between (e.g. clerkship, plaintiff’s side work, etc.)? Thank you!

like

I'm a new first year associate, almost two weeks in. Have to ask: is it normal to have almost no idea what's going on? I know my teams view me as completely clueless (which is 100% accurate), but whenever I ask for an explanation/they go over something with me, I'm still left feeling like they're speaking a different language. Is it just me? Every time I do a task I get so nervous I'm screwing up big time because it's like I'm stumbling around in the dark. What can I do to improve?

likefunny

We’re you assigned to a “supervising” or “managing” attorney your first year? I’ve been assigned to the commercial litigation group (upon my request), but the work hasn’t been steady. Random assignments flowing in from different partners. It feels like I’ll never get any real experience (e.g., depos) if it stays like this. Keep in mind I only started working four weeks ago

likefunny

Anyone at Foley Hoag? I’ve heard conflicting info on bonus. Is it full market bonus at 1850? I was told by a friend that it wasn’t market bonus until like 2000 or something, but someone on here said 1850.

like

How do you stay motivated day-to-day when the work gets boring? I'm a first-year associate who was assigned a long-term project with no deadlines. I'm struggling to bill 8 hours/day on this incredibly repetitive project.

like

Does anyone know when QE (or other firms ending their fiscal year in October) pay out bonuses? Need to know how long I have to do this until I can quit.

likefunny

Any intel on Paul Hastings real estate in a major market?

like

Looking for insights into Morgan Lewis's energy practice, typical questions: wlb, type of clients, exit opportunities. Happy to chat over DM as well. Thanks alot!

like

I’m so so unwell today and feel awful having to tell my team and take some time off.

like

If you had a deal now targeting signing on your last day at the firm (with the potential for signing to slip into the following week), would you stay through signing if your firm asked? Current midlevel on the deal, if that context is helpful

like

How much does everyone tip their administrative assistant at the end of the year?

Client wants me in-house. Y/n? I will be taking no questions

like

Hey all - first year associate here… I’ve met my hours requirement for this year (requirement is 1900 and am currently at around 2050 with billable hours - approx. 2160 with non billable admin hours) and I am just tired. Is it okay to just “disappear” during the holidays (thanksgiving week, week of Christmas) and let partners and senior associates know I am not available? At this point I don’t care about making more money - I just want to sleep, read a good trashy book, and cuddle with my dog.

likefunny

Lateral switch to Biglaw complex lit from ID. Finally making it happen. Out far too MANY years. How does pay scale work? I can’t imagine cravath scale being offered. Am I wrong?

likefunny

Are there any books/guides on being a good junior associate? For example, something that would lay out things like being responsive, tips for having better attention to detail, thinking of your senior associate as your client, how to file emails, etc.

like

I am tired of other team members not pulling their weight and having to deal with more things that on my plate. Any solution? I don’t want to snitch to the partners but am really getting sick of it

like

What would you include about you on your bio as a late junior associate/early mid level? I feel like it’s important to flag what you work on, but also not like you have much control over that at this stage. Anything that’s a huge accomplishment to have done as a junior just feels braggy.

like

Fired from big law and still unemployed 8 months out. I’m a mid level transactional associate. Is my legal career over?

like

Those of you with billable years starting Jan 1… how many hours are you at for the year (and year/group)

like

Lateraled from a Tier 2 big law firm to a Tier 1 and questioning my decision. My entire team has been staying online til like 2am every night.

likehelpful

New to Fishbowl?

Download the Fishbowl app to
unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.
That was just a preview…
Sign Up to see all discussions
  • Discover what it’s like to work at companies from real professionals
  • Get candid advice from people in your field in a safe space
  • Chat and network with other professionals in your field
Sign up in seconds to unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.

Already a user?
Login here

Share

Embed this post

Copy and paste embed code on your site

Preview

Download the
Fishbowl app

See what’s happening in your industry
from the palm of your hand.

A phone with Fishbowl app

Scan your QR code to download
Fishbowl app on your mobile

Download app

Sign up for free to view this conversation on Fishbowl

By continuing you agree to Terms of Use and Privacy Policy

Already have an account? Log in

Sign up for free to continue using Fishbowl

By continuing you agree to Terms of Use(New) and Privacy Policy(New)
Messaging rates may apply

Already have an account? Log in

For account settings, visit Fishbowl on Desktop Browser or

General

Legal