Desi Consultants

Can we discuss Kashmir? I’m very confused about what is happening. Western media paints us in a horrible light. Indian media is mostly sticking to “patriotism”. I’ve always thought of Kashmir as

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Kashmir is not part of India. India has been trying to claim them for years, and so is Pakistan. Kashmir deserves to be independent from both states. They have been fighting for their independence now for years. Let’s just say for arguments sake, Kashmir is part of India. If that’s the case why are they being put on curfew and have no access to the internet? Why would India do that to people of their own country? Do they not have rights?

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#pkmkb

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Jury is out for me, but I’m not feeling optimistic. The benefits that are being touted like greater investment, economic opportunity etc could have happened without revoking autonomy and effectively dissolving the pro-India political apparatus that has maintained stability thus far. To believe that this will remotely benefit Kashmiris economically or socially is at best delusional and at worst akin to British colonial apathy pre 1947. I think this is another misguided attempt to shake India into progress similar to demonetization - we saw exactly how that worked out and what it did for the economy. What we needed in Kashmir was greater cyber/military/grass roots investment to counter terrorism, improve education, and promote economic development and tourism to reintroduce the region to prosperity. Instead we are playing into the Hindu nationalist narrative and eliminating any sense of pro-India identity in the region. I do not see this ending well and really hope I’m wrong. :/

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I fail to understand why is it that everyone only talks about Kashmir valley? Why does no one talk about Jammu and Ladakh that were paying a heavy price for jihadi activists of the Valley separatists? Ladakh can finally get the development it craves, Jammu will have more representation and the demography imbalance creates in Kashmir over the last few decades by Pakistan and separatists will finally be corrected by settling KP's and other Hindus there. Cinema and entertainment can be resumed which had been shut down by jihadis, cafes and bars can open and people of the valley can finally come into the 21st century. That's all that matters. One country, one constitution. Period. Anyone saying otherwise is peddling the leftist/Pakistani agenda which essentially is the same because Indian leftists/alleged liberals=huge Pakistani supporters.

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People here talking nonsense about the Indian army are clueless. You want to see a heartless army? Go see the Chinese army or what the Pakistan army does in Balochistan. Indian army is perhaps the most humane of any of the world powers. I have seen videos where army personnel are running away from stone pelters though having assault grade automatic weapons in their hands to use. Few bursts and half the stone pelters would be dead and the other half run away but the one doing the running was the army men. In the US, cops shoot unarmed people. How do you think the US army would have handled stone pelters? Heck, which country's army would trap armed militants and then have their mothers address the militants via megaphone to come out and surrender instead of just shooting them dead? I'll tell you which one - Indian army. The same Indian army also selflessly rescued hundreds of Kashmiris during floods a few years back. Please learn a few things about the Indian armed forces before talking nonsense about them.

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I supposed the Pakistanis have to protest somewhere given that even their Arab friends have let them down.

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As an Indian I will state the following facts - I don’t have time for debate here so if you disagree that’s your opinion but the facts are what they are. I’ll state opinion separately at the end. Facts: 1. When Kashmir agreed to be a part of india, india gave it special status under article 370. This was a contract india signed with the Kashmiri people - who until then enjoyed an independent princely state. India has now reneged on that promise and terms, which according to the agreement at the time could only be done with the consultation of Kashmiri people and their legislative assembly’s explicit approval. 2. J&K is no longer a state now - this is unrelated to #1 and another act of political aggression. So Kashmiris have even less rights than regular states in india now - they don’t have a chief minister anymore, their police is controlled by the central government. All this is political. 3. Apart from being a political move, there was no other precipitating factor to rush this decision. 4. 7 million people have been under practical house arrest and have been beaten for leaving their homes. There are no cellphones or cable tv. Total blackout. On top of this human rights violations in Kashmir have become even more widespread. 5. Elected reps and hundreds of other Kashmiri Indians have been locked up for no crime except the govt feels they will protest. Many have been shot at with rubber pellets that blind them for protesting peacefully. 6. The state has been split into 2 non-states, effectively gerrymandering. 7. The media has barely been allowed access or if already there to move about. What is the govt hiding? In my opinion those celebrating this move will soon regret as they pay with their own civil liberties. This is a power grab and the opening salvo in a long drawn attack on Indian democracy and pluralism.

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Sifting through lots of information from past few days, we can (safely) agree on two keys points A. It’s tough to predict the future but for now this IS the right move from Modi govt. Remember, historical facts can be inferred in different ways and prediction always comes with an error coefficient ! However, at present one needed a breakthrough step that would break this 70year old tangle. Similar to demonetization, atleast someone out their is taking decisions and things are moving. Let’s be appreciative of the efforts govt is putting. After all, its us who bought this govt. into power and this was the part of the manifesto B. This govt. is right wing and, no matter what they say, is positively biased towards Hindus and their benefits. Yes, this is concerning. We are an inclusive society. However, wrt to current situation, I think it was beneficial to take this decision. In a country as big as India, it’s nearly impossible to keep everyone happy and satisfied.

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“Hi I don’t have time to debate but here’s my opinion anyway, kbye!!” 😂😂😂

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The 'red corridor' wouldnt simply disappear if all states it plagues are turned into Union Territories. Similarly, changing the status of Kashmir, in the most anti democratic manner wouldnt make the problem go away. By pushing even pro-India parties against the wall, Modi Sarkar has committed another blunder. The consequences of interferring into a state's affairs unilaterally will have consequences for decades to come, something India will regret as deeply as Pakistan regrets Gen Zia's Islamization of society.

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While we can go into endless debates about will it lead to economic growth or not, should people in J&K (and not just Kashmir) be allowed to vote for separation, but assuming that 370 had to go, there are practically two scenarios that government had to to deal with in J&K Scenario 1: Allow free movement, communication with a strong probability of protests and violence, leading to potentially high number of deaths. Scenario 2: Curb rights for some days (number of days can be debated), and prevent violent protests and potential deaths. While everyone is a big fan of rights, so am I, but on a larger social scale I am also a big supporter of human life and would choose scenario 2.

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And why is that? Because everytime normalcy is about to return someone in there colludes with Pakistan and there's a terror attack. No civilian has died under modi govt AFAIK from a terror attack. If they had, some of these opinions would be very different

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Kashmiri Pandit - Made homeless. I was 8 years old then, my parents asked me, never to think about it. It’s all politics- few people for money and power make masses suffer. I just wish this was done sooner, so that our clan didn’t had to hear on the loud speakers in 1990 - “Go away but leave women”

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Never forget. Your neighbours gave away your location or they came after you with swords and choppers. Loudspeakers blared... Convert, die or run away but if running away, leave your women behind for us. Our govt caved over then. And kept caving for, decades after that. No more. Finally, we have a PM and HM that know how to answer jihadis and Pakis in the language they understand best.

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Kashmir was acceded to India no two ways about it - since the 60s and even 70s Congress weakened 370 to the point were the autonomy was non-existent . But strategically India needs J&K to keep the geo-political stability in check - the road and belt initiative by the Chinese is out n out attack on territorial sanctity - the Paks are too wrapped around the axle to figure it out - having said all of that the youth have been poisoned with venomous secessionist thoughts for decades so its no surprise they resist the move but anyone with a clear head will know the right choice - they just are unable to reconcile their idealism with pragmatism and realism. If they are interested in a brighter future they will realize the roadmap is clear - Jammu and Ladakh have understood it - I think Kashmir will get there eventually

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Kashmiris deserve their independence. Neither India nor Pakistan has a right to it. Kashmiris will rebel once troops withdraw. Imagine, you have a house and a large piece of land in Panipat, Haryana. The King of Haryana signs some stupid agreement to join Sri Lanka. Would you want to be governed by Sri Lanka. Both countries have bad blood and Kashmiris are getting pummeled in the middle.

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Stupid logic P1, by your argument Pakistan should also be part of India, because people didn’t vote to have India and Pakistan separated, it was done through some ‘stupid agreements’ as you describe it.

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copy- pasted from somewhere else. but a simplified explanation, maybe oversimplified: My client from US messaged me today and asked "What is this article 370 & Kashmir controversy all newspapers are talking about and why is Pakistan so upset? Will this result in war with Pakistan now?" I told him "Look, 5 years ago, Facebook acquired instagram. Isn't it? Now, if Mark Zuckerberg announces that both instagram & facebook will be streamlined and will have common login accounts, will Google or Microsoft or any other company be offended?" He said "Of course not!! When the whole world knows that instagram belongs to facebook, then why should anyone bother if they merge both into common account. In fact, it is good for users because they will have a seamless experience." I said "Exactly!! Same is the case with Kashmir as well. Few decades ago, Kashmir officially acceded to India, which is equivalent to instagram being officially acquired by Facebook. But temporarily, they had to continue using their own Constitution, which is equivalent to instagram using a separate login account. And now, what has happened is that Govt of India has streamlined the accession so that Constitution of India applies to Kashmir as well, which is equivalent to streamlining the facebook-instagram login in order to use common account." He exclaimed "ohh that's all the issue is all about!! Thanks for explaining it using simple analogy. Now I will fully support India because what they are doing is perfect and in the best interest of everyone. Most of my friends in US are actually confused with the news and there are lot of misinformation spread over this by our liberal newspapers. I will use this facebook-instagram analogy to explain them & demistify their confusion. Thanks again."

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Also people saying it was not needed? We have spent 60 BILLION on Kashmir in the last decade or so and it's still horrible. Why? The money was basically looted by local politicians who would funnel it to terrorists. The Amarnath yatra was disrupted with snipers and bombs found on the way. The Indian army had to post 500000 soldiers for a 50 km stretch for the only hindu pilgrimage through a non Hindu majority area and it's STILL not safe. If nothing else this move with render the local politicians powerless and put the security of kashmir including police directly under the home ministry. If nothing else it improves the security and hopefully better utilization of our taxpayer money.

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Lmao ofc you don't know the facts cos you are clueless. Go see how much money is spent on Kashmir it's 5x more than other citizens of India. Are they superior to rest of us? Go and find the info online. It's in public domain.

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One thing that is clearly a good decision here is the separation of Ladakh into a UT. Ladakh I think was always held back by being combined with J&K and the narrative in J&K must have been so alien to the people of Ladakh

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Because ladakhis don't chant anti India and pro Pak chants and dont kill Indian soldiers genius

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I am fully supportive of this decision by the PMO. Hopefully, it does not escalate into a full blown war but things have always been tense in this area. Kashmir has been in limbo for a long time and we need to move on from the past. There will be short term pain but all revolutions had to go through some pain before things got better. Some people assume this is nothing but a Hindu Supremacist move but are losing sight of all the other benefits this can bring in the long term.

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Glanced through all the comments and dont think anyone mentioned the Hindu genocide and exile of Kashmiri Hindus? Kashmir has a Hindu king who brought these regulations to protect ALL Kashmiris. The current Kashmiri population lost any moral ground for self determination when they participated in ETHNIC CLEANSING of Hindus. How can we let them vote on this decision when they literally forced the other voters out based on religion? And now they want us to let them have their way?! That's cute..

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Talking about logic, Kashmiri Hindus form <3% of Jammu and Kashmir’s population right now. Yes, the genocide was unfortunate and abhorrent, but the solution does not lie in denying the rest of the state rights either. The problem with india’s politics is that we think only for ourselves-our community, our group, our religion. Grow up. Till you don’t think about everyone, you will only play a losing battle of quid pro quo.

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Why should kashmir be independent again?

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Pakistan gave away it's economic sovereignty for 6 billion dollars from the IMF. Lmao that's nothing money for India and an eighth of our defense budget..

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Part of India and that there was never any doubt except about exactly where the boundary is. Have we been wrong this whole time to think like that? Do Kashmiris really hate Indians? I have friends from Jammu who are very clear in their Indianness. I don’t like Modi but this time I have a hard time saying he’s to blame or is the bad guy. The clampdown prevents riots and killings. It obviously has to be lifted soon and I am optimistic it will be.

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Also jammu has more population but less seats in the assembly or had..it should have been reallocated anyway but ofc the separatists wouldn't have let it happen. Now it will in the new UT assembly and the valley will have lesser number of seats.

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Kashmir is undoubtedly part of India but as with any place, stationing thousands of troops there and regulating their lives doesn’t cause for a lot of good will among the locals One will argue that the army presence is not necessary if there weren’t terrorist attacks. Chicken or the egg.

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P1, really? You’re really saying, if you and your family were in Kashmir and felt threatened, you wouldn’t just sell what you can, pack a suitcase and just leave? If tourists can come in during non-curfew times, can’t locals (if really being oppressed) just leave? I’m not arguing if that’s wrong or right (all Indian citizens deserve to feel safe in all parts of India). But I’m just asking, if the large scale HR violations were everywhere, can’t people just pack and move?

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