{ "media_type": "text", "post_content": "Controversial question - would you support a program where the gov pays say 20k if you decide to get sterilized with no kids? And maybe 15k if you have 1 and so on? You should have to be 21 years old to make the decision. Feel like it would be a way to help pull some out of poverty and can make a better life for themselves and if they already had a kid for their kid as well and would help prevent generational poverty.", "post_id": "5eb53d1b65c987002ad965bf", "reply_count": 81, "vote_count": 3, "bowl_id": "5e6fe1c31f5e51001d267e46", "bowl_name": "Coronavirus Work-life" }

Controversial question - would you support a program where the gov pays say 20k if you decide to get sterilized with no kids? And maybe 15k if you have 1 and so on? You should have to be 21 years old to make the decision. Feel like it would be a way to help pull some out of poverty and can make a better life for themselves and if they already had a kid for their kid as well and would help prevent generational poverty.

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OP- I can appreciate where you’re coming from in asking the question, but recommend taking it a couple layers further as you think about it and consider the indirect consequences. What kind of world is it if the only people who can have children are wealthy? What is “a better life” for the child? More things, less struggle? Imagine our workplaces and level of innovation if we took out all the people who overcame adverse circumstances. Imagine at the age of 21 feeling like you have to give up your prospect of ever having children because your parents were impoverished and could not give you a head start. I understand your goal to prevent children growing up in poverty, but this issue is so much more complex than the solution you’ve proposed.

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You’re going down the wrong path, OP. Recommend you think hard about the reasons this is not in place.

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I see where you are coming from OP. But such a policy would have a negative impact all around. Less population means less economic growth. Larger class divide, perpetuation pf the poverty cycle, etc. That said some studies have shown correlation between unplanned birth and increased crime and poverty. So rather than sterilization, greater access family planning resources would resolve the issue in a less ethically compromised way, and it wouldn't negatively impact the economy. Delaying births until the parents are ready is a far better all around solution than reducing population growth.

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Would it? - There are approaching 8 billion people on the planet and over 300m in America. We were 1.6 billion only 100 years ago. If by the end of this century there are 15 billion, we have a serious problem. There are too many people, too few resources and challenges with automation and resource access, water, etc. that lie ahead. Systems like social security are terrible systems that depend on an assumption that needs to be updated. Economic growth engines can be shifted.

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Uh wuttt? 20k to get snipped and you're supposed to climb out of poverty with that? You're just going to throw people a windfall and expect they spend it wisely to prevent generational poverty? That shit would be gone within a week for all participants.

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Well then isn’t it better that they didn’t have kids. It’s a choice. And it’s a choice how they use the money. And maybe it’s paid in installments. If they do it and waste the money that’s no one else’s fault but if that’s what they did with it then honestly probably for the good that they then don’t have kids.

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They are way more likely to give you 20k to have kids. Our population is moving to an inverse triangle and that’s not good for the economy

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Having a child isn’t the reason many are stuck in poverty. 20k would not get them out of poverty either- not even close. Are you also saying that kids born into poverty aren’t worth it? Read the stories on here of people who were born into super low income families but still made something of themselves. Telling people ‘eh, you’re poor- the world doesn’t need your offspring. Here’s 20k’ is ridiculous. Someone’s financial position at 21 vs 31 could be drastically different and sterilization isn’t something you can go back on. Obviously it is upsetting to see families with 10+ children when they cannot financially support them. But this is not the solution!

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Never said kids raised in poverty aren’t worth it. And those are kids with usually at least loving parents who likely wouldn’t take this option. But there is more than a small amount of people out there that have kids as meal tickets or simply out of just not caring that do not care for their kids. Maybe it’s payments after 1 kid that decreases so some people don’t have more than and maybe it’s at 25 years. Just a thought that would have to be built out.

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I would focus my efforts on birth control and subsequently ensuring that moms are able to make the best choice for their bodies, their future and the child’s future. Choice and education are the best ways forward.

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Doesn’t this go against the tenet that a falling birth rate/population leads to an economic slowdown?

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I don’t think it would be that bad. The avg today in US is 2 kids per family. I feel, and have no basis, that it would maybe be the reverse bc you wouldn’t have as many kids raised in poverty who then live in poverty themselves later in life

I feel like the better question is how come you live in a developed country, but some people cannot afford to have children?

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Why is it that people cannot afford to have children?

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I don’t think people will give up the right to have children for $20k. You have to think, WHY do poorer people often have kids so young? Children are hope and love in a difficult world. Not sure how many will give up that right for $20K. Aside from that, agree with above- gov overseeing sterilizations then giving cash is for sure the most dystopian of ideas I’ve heard for raising people out of poverty.

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In my experience tons of young people in both white/Christian and Latin/Catholic cultures have kids young outside marriage.

Yea, eugenics is cool

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I fee like the group that would take advantage of this would be the ones who would otherwise have 4 kids while being single and living on minimum wage or living on welfare. A smaller subset who maybe have jobs but don’t make a ton might do it after 1 kid that the may or may not truly be able to afford. Idk just seems like a way to prevent generational poverty and kids that would otherwise be brought into families that can’t even feed them.

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M1 care to share your thoughts ?

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21 is still too young to make that decision and it won’t only result in people that are in poverty taking advantage of that. There will be plenty of young kids that are making $40K that have student loans that think they don’t ever want to have kids that will jump into that. I’m sure many young men in impoverished areas will do that as well but the results won’t be what you’re thinking. Now if they targeted certain individuals that would probably work but that’s unethical. This is stupid.

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Adding money prevents it from truly being a free choice. In clinical trials there are caps on how much money you can offer a person before it becomes coercion to participate. What you’re proposing is coercion Also generational policy is a failure of our government to put these people as a priority,

likesmart

You mean eugenics. America did this already.

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Eugenics? Really? Ok, Adolph. And no, this isn't Godwin's Law

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Drinking water was not a defining quality of what made Hitler Hitler. Eugenics was. Hence not Godwin

Guys... let’s not forget OP’s original post that folks would have a CHOICE. It’s not mandatory sterilization for poor people. That’s horrific. It’s simply the question of offering this as a choice. And if it were to be done, it should be offered to everyone, not just poor folks.

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Yes, there are people who would take the cash. Maybe they have huge medical bills, maybe they lost their job, maybe they want to pay for school. BUT then, the conversation would turn to 'well, if you have debt, just get steralized...pull yourself up by the bootstraps'. That would be terrible

Taking the money that you would pay out, and investing in other resources such as increasing the minimum wage, improving schools, banning assault weapons, etc., would do a lot more for those communities that you want to “help”.

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Well thanks for the input. Was just a thought and appreciate no one attacking me for having a thought.

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Let me guess- you’re floating a new McK offering

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Sterilization to pull people out of poverty...? Are you literally suggesting eugenics

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Look up the word „ethics“.

Just looked it up, looks like it’s subjective! That means I can rationalize anything.

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