Dear agencies, please hire experienced producers. I’m troubled and annoyed that there are a integrated or junior producers on here asking basic questions that an experienced and good producer (con’t)

Well said, @CL. For another perspective, I run a small production company. We're essentially tip of the production spear, and we work with agency producers very closely. Experience makes a difference. Experienced producers have extensive relationships and they understand our side of the business as well as agency and client sides. They treat us as partners and provide us the information needed to craft efficient bids that allow us to put your money and our time where it provides the best value toward achieving your goals. They triple bid fairly and uphold ethical standards. Their experience saves money and energy for us, for the agency and for the client, and it results in better work all around. On our end, as a vendor to agencies and an employer to a variety of crew, we only hire top notch edoerienced pros that we trust to do their job autonomously at each senior levels, and we expect each level of our team to have the requisite experience to perform the basic functions of their roles without needing to ask questions about their job function. That responsibility is the same no matter the role, but the knowledge required of course ranges from director to DP to department assistants to PA's. That is to say, a PA isn't expected to AD anymore than an AC is expected to DP, but a DP is expected to know how to handle a light meter or how the aperture will affect hyperfocal distance while an AD must be able to run the set without needing to ask advice on how it's done, while both are expected lead by example. Meanwhile, junior level roles are only expected to be experienced to the limit of their role, to learn from the experience and ask questions when things are slow. That's the disappearing quotient that I'm hearing EP OP and CL lamenting. Production is built to work like a well oiled machine—starting at the agency and ending at delivery—where every part works on the strength of the parts around it. It's different than creative, account or arguably, startegy, where little direct experience can be offset by incredible talent. Yet many short term P&L driven agencies (and production companies) are seeking to cut corners to protect margins, which results in more risk and less internal leadership to look to for guidance, as evidenced by the increasing number of senior titles we have all seen seeking answers to questions on fishbowl that should be required knowledge for their roles. However, there are two sides to the issue. The industry is rapidly evolving in the digital age and we need to evolve with it. I have MASSIVE respect for the producers that have risen up the ranks quickly due to their talent, and I applaud those who use resources like Fishbowl to learn. It's not an inexperienced SP or EP's fault for being hired to their position—that's an achievement for them—and we should recognize that it must be a challenging and demanding position for them to find themselves in. Ultimately, I believe the point of this thread is that lowering the qualification threshold for senior level producing positions risks destabilizing and increasing the cost of the entire production process. I hope the industry at large will soon self course correct on this trend. In the meantime, I will continue to answer questions and share my knowledge with curious producers when possible, and I will continue to ask questions when I am lost and in search of answers.

VPD1 We aren’t talking about people that simply have questions and want to learn. We are talking about miscast, inexperienced talent. The kind that cause teams in agencies to flood leaders offices because they are holding their collective performance back. So should leaders choose to hold their competent teams back to allow junior talent cast in senior roles to catch up? That would cause all your experienced A players to bolt immediately. I’ve seen it happen more than a few times. You obviously have little management experience and no P&L experience or you would understand we run businesses not colleges. The simple fact that you referenced Geiger as the penultimate Production leader, a man who bullied, abused and discriminated his way into leadership, tells me all I need to know about you.

DDB1 do I have to pay talent usage, how do I create an in-house estimate, anyone know a director that knows how to build sets

Agencies should for sure hire experienced senior level producers that know their shit. But I think it’s great that jr levels have this resource to ask questions and gain knowledge from other’s experiences. I would have loved it 8 years ago and hey, I sure don’t know everything now. Jrs shouldn’t be afraid to post questions on a industry app. At least they are trying to get smarter. Perhaps they had poor training and their manager expects them to know everything naturally (kinda like the attitude you are demonstrating, OP). They are just trying to be resourceful. If you want to get better, you have to be comfortable with looking foolish sometimes.

Penny wise and pound foolish, VP1. Better to pay our fees now than to go to the client and say the agency fucked up and they have to pay an additional $50k or worse they’re being sued

Silly EP. Why would agencies play the long game by investing in people who can actually do the job when they can invest in saving a quick buck and lose even money over time? ; )

Would know. I and my other EP’s have saved you and your clients money

DDB1 it’s being asked here on Fishbowl! This tells me that agencies are cheaping out and having an inexperienced producer produce something way over their heads. I’m all for mentoring, but hire someone that knows what they’re doing and have the junior assist

@SDP1 you are on a tangent. This isn’t about mentoring it’s about agencies hiring inexperienced, cheap talent and selling them to clients at Sr and EP rates to increase their margins. This screws the clients, the industries experienced talent and the poor newbies expected to deliver projects far beyond their capabilities. Please do not go down a tangent that takes focus away from the core issue being discussed. No one is being mean by stating the obvious and no one is refusing to mentor others.

@VP, Director 1, it’s a shame that there are EP’s that don’t bother. I was lucky to have really great mentors. Yet, at the same time, when a project is moving fast, I knew not to ask questions in the moment. Watch and absorb. Save the questions for when everyone can finally breath. Again, I’ll bring it back to my original intention, would you hire an apprentice carpenter to build your house? Agencies are being stupid by not hiring an experienced people to build a solid a team

OP thank you for stating what all experienced Producers on FB are thinking! Also, how are these “Producers” employed at all without knowing the absolute basics of their roles. I feel sorry for the teams stuck with them. Award winning teams don’t cut corners when hiring their Producers.

@SDP1 don’t listen to “Client Lead”. He/she is all over the producer board, spitting egotistical knowledge left and right. They’re clearly the person who is always right. Which is the same person who eventually gets laid off from being a producer and becomes a “client lead” or other ambiguous title that LinkedIn gives you when you’re freelancing looking for work cause no one likes working with you

But you require an actual livable wage and don’t want to work 60 hour weeks for free beer and bagels, soooo...

Like I said, I’m all for mentoring. That is how I was trained. I fully believe in paying it forward. And yes, thank goodness that there is a resource like FB for folks to ask questions. The fact that these questions are being posed here indicates to me that either the client or the CFO is cutting corners I ask questions too as I don’t know everything. My frustration is more with how agencies are being stupid and cutting their noses to spite their faces. Hire good people to train the younger people.

The problem is EP’s who don’t spend 5 minutes helping younger producers out, who are too busy to teach younger producers. Give a man a fish he’ll eat for a day. Teach a man to fishbowl for answers and he’ll eat for a lifetime

VPD1 to add clarity, Im a MD that runs an agency and a former producer. Yes I do comment often in the Production bowl as I have 20+ years of experience and have built and led teams that have won multiple Grand Prix in my career. I’m exactly who many young Producers want advice and mentoring from esp given that I’m female. You are projecting the egotistical swagger as you seem to think you have nothing to learn from those who have come before you. SDP1 is oversimplifying a complex problem into “mean experienced people vs. nice inexperienced people”. That is not the current challenge. It’s not even reality.

I don’t disagree, but also everyone has to start somewhere. And I feel bad for these junior people if they have to turn to Fishbowl for answers vs. getting trained and supported at their actual job

SDP1 these aren’t Assoc and Jr level Producers asking these questions. Mastery matters!

We have such amazing producers at Ogilvy in DC 🙌🏼

@VPD1 ok, my argument may be flawed by my logic is not. Cheap out now and pay later. Regardless, are you saying that it doesn’t matter the experience level of your team?