Disappointing but honest recap by a recruiter (big job/agency): “They loved you/your book/experience—but they wanted to hire a woman.” No sour grapes. This is what women endured for decades. Onward...

likeupliftinghelpful
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Says a lot about that agency that they hired that woman because of her gender and not because she’s a kickass creative. That’s lip service, not progress. You dodged a bullet, they’re filling quotas and don’t actually care.

likeupliftingfunny

Our team is almost all women. The CDs on our team are all men and almost all white. If my agency were willing to put in the time to find a super talented female CD I’d be thrilled. It’s still about finding the best person for the job, but it’s also about acknowledging that if that search is shallow you might only end up with (white) men not because those candidates weren’t out there, but because you asked your white male ecd who asked his friends etc etc... Diversity and representation are important, it’s not about meeting quotas or checking boxes, it’s about bringing more varied perspectives to this business where we talk to everyone.

likeupliftingfunny
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Is that in writing? Because... laws.

likesmart

Lawsuit time!

likeupliftingfunny

Was this the agency recruiter, or a recruiter trying to get you in at the agency? Because there’s one legendary recruiter who has little pull or ability to get anyone in at big agencies and seems to delight in telling white male candidates “they wanted a woman” or “they wanted a minority” to mask her lack of influence.

likehelpful

Indie recruiter.

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CW2 nailed it. We do accidental discrimination all the time. I’m a white male. 80% of my staff is male. 50% of society is female. There’s a disconnect

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The pink ghetto. It’s also where you’ll find the most POCs.

At what point is any kind of discrimination over equal opportunity okay? The laws are in place for a reason but no one is holding this behavior accountable because of the optics. Our society has literally gone tribal and insane.

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ACD2 maybe if you stated your location first we could have had a more open conversation. If you're in France, completely different way of operating. No one twisted anything, you said if one group was oppressed, now it's fine the other gets their turn. 🤔🤔

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Recruiters gaslight people all the time if they want to maintain a relationship, otherwise they just ghost people. Just because the recruiter said it does not make it true, or does not mean that’s the whole story. What if they had a pattern of well qualified women never being selected because of bogus or ambiguous reasons that had nothing to do with their potential? It speaks volumes about the recruiter because they undercut the person who was actually hired. This also says the recruiter is worried about telling a well qualified white man, sorry, they went with someone else. These situations really get funky when the hiring of a woman or person of color is a step up into a higher level role. Then the story is these people were unfairly hired, or standards were lowered, because they were hired in lieu of a white man with experience. On the other hand, how many women and people of color are waiting int he wings and ready but get passed over for a white male with no more experience but who fits in very well or has worked with the hiring manager before. Recruiters and leaders who are apologists for giving people a chance obviously don’t have a commitment to their success and actually sabotage them by spreading those types of stories. And Shame, shame, shame. That recruiter should have said they really loved your great book but hired another person who also had a great book. Shame on them. And stupid of them as well.

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Please name the agency. I’ve seen this happen in a Linkedin post from the head recruiter at Huge. She is no longer with the company.

likehelpful

If it's who I think it is, she ignored all my emails when reaching out with a reference. Makes sense.

helpfullike

As a woman and a person of color, I can attest. The difference is, and for this you’re very lucky (though it may not seem so), they told you the truth up front. This way, you don’t have to go around wondering what you might have done wrong, what you might have done differently, or worse...that you’ve finally been discovered to be untalented. Don’t front; we’ve all had those moments of doubt! In my observation, it’s people with the greatest combination of talent and ambition who suffer the worst “fear of fraud”. When you’re a woman or a POC, you have all of those worries, plus the peripheral suspicion that you weren’t hired because of your demographic. It’s a sickening feeling because sometimes it’s true and no one will ever tell you. Sometimes they don’t even know themselves. Unconscious bias...

This is not my way of saying “welcome to my world” because you clearly have the kind of perspective on this that I would hope for. Thank you for not whining, even though it sucks and I’m sorry. We should all be judged on our work and our gifts. We’re not there yet. Coincidentally, I’m rewatching the entire Mad Men series now and we’ve definitely come a long way since Sterling Cooper Draper Price, but honestly we haven’t come nearly far enough. This industry has been dragging its feet on this issue for far too long. Considering the kind of business that we’re in, I find that tragically ironic.

You do still have the dual blessing of being either judged solely on your work or being given a wider opened door because you “fit”. This rejection is not a sign of the world turned upside down for you. It’s a blip. In most cases, your work will still be able to be the primary deciding factor, whether anyone tells you or not. I can’t imagine what that must be like.

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Wow... just wow. I saw this on a job listing once. If that’s what you want then keep it to yourself, don’t let the world know. Embarrassing.

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Sounds like it might be good idea to start recording calls with recruiters. This is outright discrimination no matter which way around it is and the company should be called out. Not cool.

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Everyone here is presuming the recruiter told the truth which, given the reputation of recruiters, is unlikely.

Happened to me recently too.

likeuplifting

Me too.

Hey, wait a minute....

likefunny

I’m a female who has written for many exclusively male brands but unfortunately I’ve only worked with one man who excelled at writing for an exclusively female brand. Not saying they don’t exist but it’s hard for some men to work on feminine products and fashion (for example) because it seems they just don’t have the personal experience. Perhaps that’s why? It was the account and not your gender per se?

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I worked on a super masculine extremely American account for two years, and I’m british and female. Gave them the best work they’d had (performance in market, customer testing and client pride). This was because I made zero assumptions on who the customer was and what they wanted, and went out and actually asked them. For years the male planners and creatives before me had been creating work they wanted, rather than asking if they were every actually the target. Sometimes having someone that has to start a few steps back with a different perspective is a bonus.

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Yes. And women didn’t get that transparency back in the day. Appreciate your post and nuance.

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I really need the Ron Burgandy “I don’t believe you” gif here

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<Jen Lawrence OK gif>

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Nope. Verbal.

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we shouldn’t assuming that the person they hired is not talented. there are many factors that go into hiring, and maybe you both had great books.

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Agree but we’ve already been through this @180LA1: I never said she was hired *simply because* she was a woman, regardless of talent or experience, I said that I was told they wanted to hire a qualified woman. Subtle but there’s a difference. Because I can only assume given the quality of this agency, and this recruiter, that her other descriptors besides her chromosomes are things like talented, leader, experienced, etc...at least I hope so, but i can only presume her book & track record, referrals etc are good, too. And for those who say this is lawsuit worthy, there is no chance in hell. Can you actually imagine reading about a middle-aged man suing an ad agency--longtime bastion of middle aged men running things—-for not hiring him over a woman? I would never work in this industry again.

likeuplifting

This is illegal. It’s gender discrimination. It’s happening all over this industry and there is a class action lawsuit starting to move forward

likefunny

I really don't understand why we don't call out these folks. They clearly aren't good for our industry

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