Do you believe in forgiving student debt in the US? Predatory loans with a bleak path towards repayment, I can see (and justify!) accommodations being made. A blanket forgiveness policy seems simplistic and fiscally irresponsible at best. What am I missing?

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Absolutely 100% NO

Under no circumstance

likehelpfulfunny

Lower interest rate. Allow to be included in bankruptcy. Cut college costs. Allow for public service credits. As far as society, people who didn’t go to college shouldn’t pay for those who did and make substantially more income. Same with seniors citizens.

likehelpful

D1, I’m following your logic and agree with you about your bankruptcy points but I’d argue that rising cost of education is also a symptom, not the root cause.

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If everyone’s loans were paid off I think society would be better off as a whole? The only argument I ever see against wiping out loans is the “I had to do it, so should they” argument.

I recognize I’m oversimplifying but honestly who cares. The US Gvt can afford it. Imagine a world where people weren’t held back by student debt.

likefunny

Imagine a world where everything was free - alas, it doesn’t work that way.

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Pay your loans. If you don’t have to pay your debts, why should I have to?

likesmarthelpfulfunny

If they forgive student debt they should also forgive mortgage debt. Not my fault they made it too easy to take out a mortgage on a house I can’t afford with 0-3% down.

They gave me a predatory loan, now pay off my asset for me (yes, a degree is also an asset).

Clearly sarcasm, but you see the point.

likefunny

the issue is not that everyone has student loans. the issue is that education is expensive as f. so maybe we should work towards the core of the problem instead of short term satisfaction

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P1 is correct in addressing the root cause rather than the symptom. Let’s say any university called upon our firms for some advice to improve the student experience and outcome, what are the chances we advise them to lower tuition rather than make the bell shinier or the whistle louder? On top of that, I would challenge anyone going into undergrad to get denied a student loan. It simply doesn’t happen. Bottom line is the schools have 0 incentive to decrease their tuition given the borderline unlimited demand for the service.

I truly think the biggest impact can come from the private sector in our recruiting practices. We put too much emphasis on the perceived reputation of the institution an applicant is coming from.

Also, why do we press for a bachelors degree for staff level jobs when an associates degree would do? I think an associates degree to get into a corporate job, then a mechanism for alternative crediting rather than another full 2 years of schooling would do a great deal for our national debt issue

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From a economic and societal perspective, it is not beneficial to have young people buried in debt before they enter the workforce. Personally, I’d love to see a program where if you dedicate a few years to a public service (military, peace core, bringing talents to underprivileged areas through programs like TFA etc.) you can have your education paid for or loans forgiven

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Hi! TFA alum here. Just want to student loan not exist for this program. In fact many people have to take out more loans just to pay for their teaching credential or living expenses since the salary typically does not provide enough to live off of comfortably.

No but lower or no interest loans and higher standards for anticipated job prospects based on the degree they are seeking makes sense

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The interest is historically low. Is anyone carrying interest rates in the double digits? Be real

Plus that was the VOLUNTARY contract the loan was granted under to account for the risk.

It is a VOLUNTARY obligation, live in your means and pay your debt

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To 90% of ppl here who think it’s ‘unfair to pay for other people’ - do you disagree with financial aid packages from gvmt i.e. grants for higher education?

Or let’s expand - many of you cite ‘why should I pay for others’... let’s explore a model that your taxes don’t pay for anything you don’t directly benefit from...

Do you also disagree with the $1200 stimulus income restrictions?

Yes there are individuals who have asinine amounts of education debt for stupid reasons (if you look at it though, likely the cause of wild wild west education system with unaccredited institutions or failure to properly regulate debt to future income ratio, etc). BUT large majority of those with debt are working and contributing members of society who would likely not have had a shot, they needed loans because they did not come from financially stable backgrounds. These loans gave them the ability to get higher educations and contribute to society in MANY ways.

I don’t think anyone here can argue the net benefit higher education opportunity has on a society.

If you’re going to cherry pick the way the government helps and stimulates its society during a pandemic, relieving student loan debt is a low hanging fruit and a low risk decision.

You now have college educated individuals directly provided a stimulus that will impact their spending habits greatly - and will likely stimulate an economy better than any government program out there

And to those that cite ‘I worked so hard so others have to to’, gfy.

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Also MD1 - I am going to also assume the current composition of spend of college graduates is focusing on student loan repayment, then savings. Graduates don’t have the disposable income because they are smart enough to understand the benefit of contributing to retirement and saving thus prioritize it. If we remove the student loan repayment we just might give college graduates more disposable income

I’m only on board for interest forgiveness. I recently read a study that referenced Fed data stating 56% of student loan debt are from people with grad degrees. I have trouble feeling bad for people that doubled down on education for a high paying career that may never materialize.

likesmart

It’s interesting how much we’ll cut each other’s throats at the first sign of any government assistance for another individual, be it food stamps, housing vouchers, or Medicaid, yet we turn a blind eye to the massive bailouts given to big banks and companies that simply mismanaged their business. Let the common person have a bit of this pie too.

I’m fortunate enough not to need the recent $1,200 stimulus checks, but I will very much be looking forward to another round of these. Why? Because that is all the individual will ever see.

I say wipe all the student debt away.

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Bailouts typically benefit the wealthy and powerful - not the underprivileged citizen that it looking for help getting on their feet and paying for what should be basic rights in America. There isn’t the funding or publicity to argue against the bailouts.

Wiping the student debt will have short term benefits to people who took out student loans - ie a student loan bailout - what happens next? Will student loans always be forgiven? We don’t have a solution to why a college degree costs so much which is why student debt exists. If we wipe out loans now the problem will only perpetuate for decades to come. And universities have no incentives to decrease their cost. With debt forgiveness they are incentivized to increase their cost as its guaranteed to be paid for.

This leads to increased taxes, increased national debt, the funding that could have gone to the beneficial programs mentioned above (food stamps, subsidized housing, Medicaid) can be decreased (as the student loan forgiveness funding needs to come from somewhere), possibly of inflated housing costs (releasing thousands of dollars to people looking to purchase a home will drive costs up) - all of this will lead to a further divided living standard gap in America.

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No. Terrible moral hazard risk and does nothing to address the real problem is colleges felt absolutely free to inflate costs horribly, enabled by all the readily available financing.

1) Forgive loans from shady schools but these schools also have to be shut down as criminal enterprises. Of course, disallow any future loans for these types of school
2) Don’t allow deferrals for non professional grad school
3) Bonus, make colleges have some skin in the game. They shouldn’t be graduating en masse students who can’t service their debt. I wouldn’t say *every* student has to be able to - that is getting close to full on vocational school - but it should be a high percentage of them.

likesmarthelpful

I am not in favor of forgiveness but some % pay base like they do with some fields like medical. Something like Lower of a) 10% of income for 20 years or b) what your loan payment would have been using straight line amortization. Easy as it doesn’t penalize under-compensated folks stuck with high loans but doesn’t make people completely not responsible for their debt.

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Hey EY3 why don’t we all sit on our asses at home and let the government take care of us! Forgive your student loan, give you free housing, give you food, give you money to go spend on that vacation, oh yes and a front seat view while we all gf ourselves!

likesmart

EY3 respectfully you are missing the point. T his is a debate that needs to die a painful death and never be brought up again,

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Yeah I had to suffer and eat rice and beans for 10 years to pay off my student loans and I think others should have to suffer just like I did!

likeuplifting

Hey that’s luxury food. I had to deal with ramen and potatoes.

funny

Student loans are predatory lending.

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D2 Your logic is oversimplified and flawed. To your point, it still costs money to go the JUCOs - you are ironically calling out the ‘aide or scholarship’, where do you think that money comes from? Where do you think the money that relieves low income teachers, or the GI bills come from? Can you argue being a low income teacher benefits society more than the taxation from the alternative high income job of equivalent pathways? Better yet, let’s find a way to ✨ avoid the need for low income teachers because pre higher education is equal ✨

We can argue the merit and pathways to education all day because inherently the system is flawed and there are many different angles/actors to resolve problems.

However you are missing the point of the conversation. The point isn’t a flat out relief for funsies-sake - if we weren’t in a pandemic loan relief is arguable - however I would argue that govt should be doing a better job of regulating public higher education tuition.

The point is this is an attractive form of fiscal stimulus compared to alternatives - handing money directly to college graduates for more disposable income.

like

The cost of college has risen due to government subsidized student loans (a classic unintended consequence of leftist policies).

Forgiving student debt will create more unintended consequences (and moral hazard).

likefunny

It actually wasn’t “leftist” policies. The expansion of student loans started in the Reagan/Bush 1 years.

Absolutely not.

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It shouldn't be blanket. I think a forgiveness plan where you work in designated goverment jobs or social work and pay what you can for 6 years and then have the rest forgiven makes sense.

The eligible jobs will have a fixed pay structure with a known % taken right off the top to pay the loan. If someone got an expensive degree, got a good job from it and can afford to pay then they shouldn't be let off the hook.

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I think the real issue is that we are addressing the symptoms and not the cause. The core issue is cost of education and I fear by forgiving loans, schools will be encouraged to increase what they charge foe their services as there is “free” money to pay for it.

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Agreed - universities shouldn’t be able to socialize the downside while being able to benefit from the upside.

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