{ "media_type": "text", "post_content": "Does pitch culture help or hurt the industry? I see so much burnout and mental health issues surrounding the dreaded pitch. Just wondering what (if any) alternatives there could be.", "post_id": "61e4c16350eed60037be3bbb", "reply_count": 31, "vote_count": 8, "bowl_id": "5565cfca8b2b9a03009acf57", "bowl_name": "Advertising", "feed_type": "crowd" }

Does pitch culture help or hurt the industry? I see so much burnout and mental health issues surrounding the dreaded pitch. Just wondering what (if any) alternatives there could be.

like
Posting as :
works at
You are currently posting as works at
Highlighted IconHIGHLIGHTED

Pitching can be exhilarating and bring a team together when everyone is on the same page and believes in the idea. The main issue I have with pitching is that recently it seems to involve way more C-suite people than it used to, so suddenly it becomes a committee practice and all The magic of selling a brave visions gets diluted by ROI spreadsheets and digital banner media plans. I rennet things like agency.com pitching for Subway with a YouTube video, or Saatchi pitching for Ferrari by parking a Ferrari in reception every time the client came in for a meeting during the pitch. I miss the theater of it all, it felt like the one time we could really be free with our ideas before they had to actually meet reality. Maybe the metaverse will bring that back when we can build our own epic pitch stages on Decentraland or whatever. Who knows.

like

I'd love to know how this works in other adjacent service industries like accounting or legal or other types of consulting. My hypothesis is that because they're more analytical, all other things being equal the pitching process is more sane, disciplined and protective of the pitching firm's capital relative to agencies. Agencies are less analytical by nature (and have become less so over time) and this causes them to make all sorts of mistakes in their processes for acquiring new business. Agencies routinely assume that the all hands on deck approach is necessary because it works sometimes. They fail to really think through whether the incremental gains in win probability across the totality of their pitches justifies the cost. Agencies routinely base decisions about how hard to pursue certain accounts based on assumptions that are beyond rosy and quickly dispelled six months after winning the business. This isn't to say that agencies should never go balls to the wall and should be excessively discriminating about what accounts they pursue. Obviously you need to win business to offset what you lose. But for all the energy that goes into debating the minor grade minutiae in pitch decks and concepts, I'm consistently amazed at how thoughtless and uncritical agencies are about how they treat new business beyond "It's really important."

Recent IconRecent

Pitching is the most fun I have at work. It brings out the best in me, and in my coworkers. In the day to day minutia it can be easy to lose sight of how freaking talented your colleagues are. Pitches ask people to use their full talents and show they’re the best. It is REALLY hard to do on top of the day job, though.

like

Never more depressed than during a pitch. Endless days and nights. Every weekend. Burnout.

likefunny

Terrible business that starts potential partnerships on the worst possible terms; one side of the partnership offering to do work for free to prove that they’re worthy of doing the work for real.

like

Paid pitching should be a common practice. This free pitching harms smaller firms with less resources.

like

Some of us love pitching

like

I have a different experience with pitching than the other posters. The majority of the time I find we tailor our decks and ideas into what we think the client will like rather than what we think is best for the client. Maybe it’s just the difference between a fearful leader and a fearless one but 4/5 times pitch decks cull the best creative and put forth some banal work. Edit: oh, and to answer your question: I don’t know. Just refuse to pitch? Or at least don’t do spec.

like

Wow that's the opposite of my experience. It's always the best knowing nothing gets produced and the work goes downhill from winning 😂😂😂

likefunny

Pitching is fun, I wish it wasn't the scam that it is of giving away our ideas for free and no legal recourse if your idea is taken to a cheaper agency.

like

It’s challenging, time-intensive, resource-intensive and oftentimes the decision is made based on commercials and not final work product. The highs of a pitch are not worth the lows of stress, lack of leadership and pinching junior resources to solution.

like

A good prep session and putting together the deck can be great, but I’ve lost count of the number of panic attacks the night before I had to pitch. Way too much pressure.

like

It’s exhausting and often the same old dog and pony show. But despite that, horribly inefficient and causes massive burnout. That being said I was recently in a pitch where they liked us so much they scrapped the creative shootout we were supposed to do after the initial capes, creds & chemistry check and just awarded us the work. So now I want every pitch to go that way.

like

“Pitching” isn’t the problem – the culture of feats of strength displays of self-sacrifice at the altar of the never-ending fire drill is.

like

From a vendor perspective, I wish there was an enormous overhaul to the unpaid triple bidding process, because there are so many harmful and counterproductive practices. Pitching against an invisible in-house bidder. Pitching against an unmentioned holding company competitor. Ghosting after a pitch. Pitch decks demanded for presentation on Monday mornings. Triple bids actually being quintuple bids. Vague feedback after bidding, then ghosting (“We just felt more comfortable with someone else.”) Different bidders being given entirely different bidding specs. Bidding on jobs that were never greenlit by the client. Etc.

like

So much this. But I’d definitely add “pitching against new CMO’s undisclosed former agency who they brought in from their previous job.” The last three pitches our team pursued ended this exact same way.

Pitching should stop. Sure it is fun to work with less constraints and more what ifs.. but it’s also a huge cause of burnout - and it’s too huge. Imagine if you only had your agency reel to win business? What kind of work would you fight for? What kind of ideas would you go for? No client wants an agency that just blames the client, that’s a production house. IMHO

like

A race to the bottom

like

Pitching is the only thing left in advertising that's still fun. I mean if you don't like that then why the hell would you be in this business?

like

Working for clients isn't anywhere near as fun as winning them. Maybe you don't know that feeling? But eventually you have to do the daily grind to pay the bills.

It’s just part of the game. We’re ok doing free creative test during interviews. Hopefully that’s changing tho.

Related Posts

Lease a 2020/2021 car for 3y 10k miles vs buy a used car. What would be cheaper (in those 3 years) all in? (Including insurance,taxes,blah)

How much EY deduct for insurance?

like

Hi All, is anyone aware of the below points: 1) How is Credit Suisse in terms of work culture. 2) Do people have to work on shifts? 3) How is the yearly increment there?

like

I’ve heard some negative things about the amazon culture being cutthroat, crazy number of hours etc. How true is it? What does amazon do specifically for women in tech and diversity?

like

We need this type of Corporate Culture!

Post Photo
like

How are you all doing? Here's a thought to get some of us chatting again: In an increasingly hybrid/remote working culture, how do you educate and convince your business stakeholders to not do info overloads with emails? The risk of people not being aware is there but sending separate emails for every sub-program, webinar is annoying (as a receipent) I understand employee perspective.

like

Any referrals available for Hartford or a Travelers insurance?

like

Current domain : OTC Operations Industry : Insurance Yoe : 4 yrs (completing in Jun'22) Tech stack : RPA, Advanced excel, Microsoft Power Automate, Power BI (Beginner), VBA (can dabble) and Alteryx (learning). Want to switch domain to R2R or FP&A. Can anyone refer or provide insights to add something in profile to make it stronger.

like

I’m about to graduate with a B.S. in healthcare management in the December. I plan on being a part time graduate student pursuing an MBA with a specialization in health administration. What university do you recommend I attend? I’m looking for one that is CAHME accredited, could be in Florida, Georgia, or Texas and offers a lot of scholarships. I’m also concerned about post-graduate life. How/where do I secure a well paying career right after I graduate with my degree?

like

Woo-Hoo! Investment property #4 in the books! This addition now brings my monthly cash flow after all expenses (PITI + PM and saving 10% of the rent for maintenance & insurance) at approximately $1,200 a month. My goal is $1,700mo. Need 2 more houses! Then I plan to buy more for a cushion.

Post Photo
likeuplifting

New to fish bowl. I have been an insurance adjuster for 25 years. I work for State Auto Insurance. I have been with State Auto for a little over a year and to be honest it’s been the best insurance carrier I have worked for. They are hands off and let your claims experience run the claim process. The work culture is fantastic. Recently it was announced that Liberty Mutual would be acquiring State Auto. To say I’m a little disappointed is an understatement. Any thoughts from people that know LM?

Looking for full time PT home health pay in Indiana state with 4 years of experience. Do they separate for the evaluations and follow up visits and SOC / ROC

like

Hello 🐠 fellows ! I’ll be joining soon to EY as M. Do you have any advice on how to start my journey at EY? I come from D so I’m assuming it’s pretty much the same ? Or is there anything different very unique from EY culture ? Thanks !

likesmart

This bowl: a culture collective dedicated to fishing for likes in pursuit of landing a job ..truly a work of art. Me: I’m still trying to figure out how I got here

like

Hi everyone! I am International Recruitment Consultant working for staff agency that recruit healthcare professionals for UK hospitals, however I am looking for refferals, since I would like to go and work for corporate pharma, BioMedical and companies as recruiter. I am willing to allocate in Europe. If anyone is aware of companies looking for recruiter for pharma and life science Division please DM me. Thanks to everyone who will help me out! 🙏

like

How to use the insurance provided by birlasoft? My father has a medical condition for which I need help.

Between two offers, "Associate Principal" for m&a consulting in the Healthcare industry vs a Director at a F300 company doing M&A and Partnerships. Consulting pays about 50k more. What does the future look like in consulting? I am a bit nervous jumping from from "industry side" to the "consulting side".

Any thoughts on Avanade Advisory/ Digital Experience? (Types of projects. WLB. Work culture..) Thanks!

like

What is the culture and growth ops like at Google vs Meta? And which has better benefits?

like

I’m a management information systems student. I graduate in May. My career was pushed to start as Business Analyst and move up. I do not understand programming that well and I was interesting in the financial, customer service and healthcare field. Also fill stuck as a student looking for another job.

like

Additional Posts

Hi all. I’m from Singapore and I believe the priority date is current. Should I file my i140 under premium processing?

like

When is it too early to look for external opportunities? if i’m under a year of experience and get hit up from recruiters should I still pursue?

likehelpful

How do maternity benefits work for NJ? 16 weeks paid leave?

like

Hi Guys, I got an offer from EY India and Capgemini I am having 8+ YOE in UX/UI Designing Please help me to choose right company. EY - 18LPA fixed Capgemini - 20LPA Fixed EY Capgemini

like

Any one who has done CSCP certification and can help guide through the exam preparation ?? Does it help when applying to MBB??

like

Tech exit question I have 7 YOE -> 4 YOE MBB, 1.5 YOE PE, 1.5 YOE PE value creation (same UMM PE firm) Would I be an attractive candidate for FAANG strategy roles? What total comp could I expect?

like

I'm a woc, and the majority of a DE&I committee I'm on is white. A statement was made that sharing demographic data was a legal issue but we could assume demographics from attendees a company meeting. This statement along with a couple others were problematic. It seems like dragging a group that's just happy to slap some superficial messaging and say DE&I is accomplished. Any BIPOC out there that can lend advise on how to push supposed allies to back you up in groups like this?

like

Hi, I'm fresher in Capgemini currently on a support role and really wanted to learn Data Science from basics. Please suggest some good courses. Got confused a lot after watching lot of videos from youtube about the roadmap for Data Science and related info.

like

Have just been fired in the middle of the Covid-19 lockdown, what are the opportunities right now?

like

Anyone has experience to transfer to Investor Relations from Audit? Anyone works in IR? Could you tell me your experience?

likefunny

Graduated law school, passed the bar, and started my job last summer. My wife and I got pregnant with our first sooner than we expected, and we're due in June. Any general tips/advice?

Apple Series 6 watch? Yay or Nay?

like

Hi Fishes I have 2 offers in hand. 1 from tcs of 15 LPA and another one from Optum of 17 LPA.which one to choose.plzz suggest.

like

Any recommendations for wine delivery in the area? Looking to buy upwards of 6 bottles at once (time to stock up) at a decent price with quality options

like

Hey ladies- looking for salons in NYC where I can get a really good silk press done for under $100. Thanks!

likefunny

AWS SA Associate exam prep - Is Whiz labs still the best resource for sample exams? Anyone who took the test recently, can you please advice?

When did you start thinking about FIRE?

like

For investment banking roles (EBs), how long can a no-response after the screener or modeling test can be considered as a ding?

like

Hi guys, How many rounds will Infosys have in recruitment process??

like

Hi Fishers, Will ey GDS renegotiate the offer with a counter offer, is it a good idea?

like

New to Fishbowl?

Download the Fishbowl app to
unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.
Download Fishbowl to see what others are saying
That was just a preview…
Sign Up to see all discussions
  • Discover what it’s like to work at companies from real professionals
  • Get candid advice from people in your field in a safe space
  • Chat and network with other professionals in your field
Sign up in seconds to unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.

Already a user?
Login here

Share

Embed this post

Copy and paste embed code on your site

Preview

Download the Fishbowl app

Get realtime notifications and see
what's happening in your industry
from the palm of your hand.

For account settings, visit Fishbowl on Desktop Browser or

General

Legal