Feel like Art Directors work 2x as much as their copywriter partners. Should we be getting paid more industry wide or is it just me and my AD friends who feel this way?

likefunny
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I think it varies from brand to brand. I’m on a writer-driven acct right now where I’m doing a lot more, while last agency my AD partner was there a lot later than I was. It’s just the business. Arguing about who is more important is meaningless. We’re both equally unimportant.

likefunnysmart

Do you mean hours, or twice as much talent and skill? Because sure, art directors may need to lay up all those presentation decks, but the rest 🤔

likefunny

As someone who recently switched over from AD to CW, i’ve noticed writing doesn’t actually take very long. It’s not easy taking a scribbled-out “concept” and actually turning it into a coherent, bulletproof script...but art direction takes far more time and energy imo.

likesmart

What is this? It's team all the way.
Divisiveness blows.


Good luck living with that outlook.

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I think it depends on the type of work being done. In my case I always see the opposite

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SC1 This is the exact mentality of copywriters that all art directors loathe, are you suggesting we don’t think, concept or write? Boy I’ve sold maybe as many lines and campaigns as any of my copywriters in my career. Don’t get me wrong I love the partners I’ve had but we are the ones that are getting our hands dirty more often than not. Also, yes, more hours should equate to more money. Notice I didn’t say we work better I said we work twice as much.

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CW1, you must work with some shitty ADs

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*at least in my experience. in 2018, no excuse for comps that don’t look like the finished product. jumping between PS, IL, AE, Premiere all day... editing together vimeo references to the music track + a page or 2 of unimpeachable swipe + a coherent, not-stocky storyboard...meanwhile i’m over here just putting the script together

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In my experience, we come up with the ideas. Art directors use a program to complete their work. Copywriters use a program too — we call it our brain. Wish we could just press buttons and have shit magically appear.

likefunny

You should be paid a salary that reflects the value you contribute to the agency. If you aren’t satisfied, ask for more. You don’t need to pull us into it. Do you compare your salary to other agency positions also?

likesmart

Creatives are the highest paid discipline in advertising. The best art directors I’ve known have been able to discern what will work best and are efficient with their work. I know people want to make their comps beautiful for presentations, but how many of you have them faced the reality that the client expects exactly what they saw in the comp? Or is it just me? It seems to happen all the time on Auto accounts. But no, more hours doesn’t mean more pay (automatically) - especially as a principle. What matters is the work that is sold, produced, and ultimately gains the agency (and therefor the AD) recognition. That’s when you can demand more

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I’m a CW - and my feelings are this. You are both responsible for the initial concept. But Then each of you have to be responsible for your respective crafts. And give each other the space to do it. It’s the writers responsibility to turn those concepts into scripts, headline, etc. So, the writing usually comes first. And writer is pretty much on their own to work out the 15 ideas you guys agreed on into scripts. So the first half is the writer working the late nights and way more hours. Then if you two both feel good about where scripts landed, it’s the ad’s responsibility to make them look kick ass, give a clear visual representation of the idea, and give it a good chance of getting through the agency client gauntlet. So art director works way more than cw in the backend.
When both people like and understand their roles and compliment the other with the thing they can’t do, that’s when teams work best.

Writer should alway offer to help find images though, and a bonus is for the writer to learn keynote, so the AD can focus on the comping and not all the deck shit.

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Depends on the writer. Some writers work just as hard and don’t simply check out once the lines are written. Some art directors also don’t start working until the idea is there. Laziness should not be paid as much as hard work, but I think laziness can go both ways

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Your feelings have no effect on your finances.

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☝️CW2 is right. Agencies tend to abuse ADs a bit more often. If you’re really working that much harder then it’s your agencies fault. Also polished comps all the time is bull shit. The ideas should be strong enough to stand on rough comps and if management can’t understand that then they are not good at their job

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Such a bizarre thread. Why aren’t you guys collaborating with your partners as actual partners, as opposed to to individuals completing their half of the project??? I’m a CW. constantly asking my AD how shit sounds, whether or not it’s too long, if she can hear the idea in there, etc. and she asks how I feel about her swipe, or her image selects, or the placement of this and that, etc. and we don’t always agree but we *always* hear each other out! And more often than not we can help each other elevate the idea (writing or art) even more. The only difference that should exist between y’all is your level of expertise in being able to bring the idea to life

likehelpful

I should also mention, if you think you get “more dirty” having to deal with designers and studio and god forbid a photographer, then you are so self centred you literally have no idea what anyone else does in their job. Which probably explains why you think you should get paid more just because you can’t work faster. Good luck with that attitude! No wonder your writers don’t want to help you 👏

likefunny

Nah. If that’s the case then your agency needs to offer ADs more resources and hands (if it’s really the case that everything needs to look polished all the time) imo that’s the solution

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W that being said she gets paid more lol

likefunny

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General market thoughts: Still a lot of tickers who have not hit new highs. Dollar is 10% less than last Feb. In a weird way, technically we are only up 3-4% from last February. Most of those gains are in a few tickers (as we know). Liquidity increases volatility so lots bubbles growing, blowing, but settling higher than before. Should be good for swing trading. I could see probably two or three big corrections this year but buy the dip. Hedge with VIX when market moves too fast. Keep eye on $.

likesmart

London, UK. Currently work in real estate finance for a retail/commercial bank. 2+ years exp in debt (mezz and senior). Graduated 2018 from UK target in Real Estate (around 1/5 modules were finance). Looking to get out of retail and move to corporate. Think IB might be a push but MBD at GS sort of think more likely. I’m doing CFI modelling course to get my skills up to scratch. Any other suggestions? I think CFA has slim to no value in my situation but open to hear otherwise. Cheers

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