{ "media_type": "text", "post_content": "Female here who hates firm emphasis on \"diversity\". 11 years of consulting and zero examples of discrimination. Biggest fear is promotion based on increasing women executives and not ability.", "post_id": "582d669ad477290016a2fadb", "reply_count": 91, "vote_count": 77, "bowl_id": "552d1d24dc1c586b09d2d051", "bowl_name": "Consulting", "feed_type": "crowd" }
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Female here who hates firm emphasis on "diversity". 11 years of consulting and zero examples of discrimination. Biggest fear is promotion based on increasing women executives and not ability.

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Completely agree that women getting promoted just because they are women isn't right, and companies need to ensure they honestly look at qualifications. However, experimental research shows women are evaluated harsher than men for mistakes than men (when you change the name for business anecdotes and have individuals evaluate the situation) and need to have more qualifications to be considered "as good" as men (when you change the name of identical resume of skills/experiences and have people rate hire-ability for a role) - this bias exists amongst men and other women. This is related to implicit bias and can make it seem "women are getting promoted for being women" for some who may unknowing select self-confirming data due to bias.

This bias has even been shown in places like HBS. The school noticed women were not becoming Baker Scholars (top honors) proportional to their numbers in the student body and wondered if women were less qualified than men. After they moved to a more objective rating system (documented record of class comments vs. professor's memory of comments), the number spiked and is now basically proportional to the make-up of the student body. Turns out women weren't worse than men in class, but professors were forgetting their contributions or mis-attributing their smart comments to male students in false memory due to implicit bias.

@OP and others, there is a great implicit association test that Harvard offers on gender so you can explore how much you may hold - highly encourage people to Google this. Tools like this help us learn more about ourselves and bring a common base of experience to discussions of diversity because we all live such different lives and awareness of broader trends that we may not yet recognize in our own lives is the first step towards helping us be open to both sides and have fruitful discussions.

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This post (similar to many of the political ones) is just reminiscent of the "I haven't witnessed or experienced it so it can be real." Please, suspend your disbelief because this is real.

While I agree that folks should be promoted on merit and demonstrated ability, there are times when women HAVE done these things (more so than their male peers) but get overlooked because they need more time to mature or whatever the excuse is. And you know what, sometimes leadership has to take risk and put someone up their who knows 50% of the job... what's so wrong if it that someone is a woman instead of a man??

You can't say you've never experienced it because you weren't in the room when your reviews happen and they put you up against your male peers... you only know the outcome.

If you are content in your space and your world, that's fine. But don't be so dismissive of those who make the choice to fight for more and earn more because they've worked their asses off to get there and are rewarded for it. Don't impede their path because you are content in your own.

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Ah op, you are the kind of woman that annoys me the most. You don't do anything to help and then you go around saying stuff like this and make it even harder to get others to acknowledge there's a problem. If you are really a woman, there's no way you've gone 11 years in this industry without seeing discrimination.

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No way you've been at this for 10+ years with ZERO cases of discrimination. As a male, I've definitely see discrimination/sexism at Deloitte, esp. in areas like FSI.

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no discrimination in 11 yrs? i've been working just over 1 and have seen discrimination and sexism. i wish women didnt need to be considered a diverse/minority group, but we do. we're not equal yet.

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Ey1 is right. The worst kind of women are the ones who refuse to acknowledge the problem.

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Other women all about women's groups and "how to make things right". Am I the only one that thinks calling out women as "different" with needs for special treatment is reversing women's movement?

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I call BS. If you're a successful female in this line of work, you would know better.

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@OP I think it depends on your OG/SG and Practice Area. Mine has a known diversity problem and leadership is actively trying to address it. I'm an African American female so my view on some of our diversity challenges is different. I'm 18 years in and we definitely have diversity challenges that should be addressed if we want to attract and retain future thought leaders and innovators. That said we need to maintain focus on building and rewarding the right people and not focusing solely on numbers.

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I'm a man. I interned and started the same year with many friends 8 years ago. We all (in NYC) started at the same exact salary. A good female friend of mine got the same exact end year ratings (we used to have them now it's annual bonus tier perhaps for this reason), yet my salary went up by more than 7% over her bumps each year.

I believe in promoting based on qualification but I've also seen this and other examples of gender discrimination in my years. Thankfully I've also seen a lot of opportunity promotion and equal treatment, but definitely not perfect.

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@Op.. It's unlikely that your salary is equal or above to the salary of your male counterparts. That alone is discriminatory since your skill set may be even better yet you are worth less because you're a woman. That alone is discrimination. I've never seen a woman get "promoted" with a less-than of a skill set. What I have seen is many women not get promoted and instead men with less experience and skills get the job.

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^if you're talking about the fact that women get paid, on the average, 77 cents to every dollar... That's a real thing

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I can only assume this is a troll post. If your biggest fear is a woman being promoted to an executive position who is unfit for the job, then that in itself is your first experience with sexism.

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Problem is opinions are not equatable to facts. Do SOME women do very well? Of course. Does that example negate the national trend that has been well documented and shown? Nope.

Reminds me of my grandma who said that she was 99% sure Obama was a Muslim from the Middle East, then when I disagreed she said "it's my opinion!" You can't have opinions on facts...

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OP you should learn the difference between anecdotes and statistics....

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This is sort of like when I hear "many scientists don't believe in climate change". Anecdotes =\= facts y'all

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Sharing a visual. At pwc advisory leadership conference in Orlando last year. At break the line to the mens room seriously had about 1000 guys in it. No line to the ladies room. I wish I snapped a picture.

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I think it's safe to you've been #DESTROYED OP

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Just because you haven't felt or noticed discrimination doesn't mean it doesn't exist. That's like if one black person said, "well I don't think we need criminal justice reform because I've never been stopped unreasonably by a cop who used excessive force and I'm black and have been alive for 25 years!" That's great for you but your own experience doesn't make everybody else's experience a falsehood. Sure, this thread is full of anecdotal experiences, but why do you feel the need to rain on this parade anyway? Do you really think that if feminists "succeeded," you would be promoted based on your gender alone and no other qualifications? If they actually made you partner one day, would you really think "well that's just because I have a vagina, not because I earned this." If you think that way, that's your own self esteem talking and not the result of feminism.

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I've never been promoted just because I'm a woman. I have always had to work harder than all my male peers. I've always had to be careful to not react to strongly so I don't get called aggressive/bitch or be laid back coz then I get told I'm not assertive. I have to careful not to show too much emotion so I don't get called emotional and too little so I don't get called cold. Having to watch yourself that much is a lot of work. And this is work my male peers don't have to do. As long as I have to work so much harder every second I'm at work for the fear of how I'll be perceived, gender bias exists.
OP- I'll agree with you the day I don't have to do any of this. Gender bias doesn't have be in your face. It can be very subtle.

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A1, so let me get this straight: women having more opportunities now means we've come far enough? Or that we don't still have ways to go? Just because progress has been made doesn't mean equality has been achieved. Don't buy into the hype that we should be satisfied because progress has been made while inequalities still exist. I'm a black woman who has seen progress but knows there is STILL more to be done. I'm never satisfied enough just because I'm doing well when I see other women and minorities STILL shortchanged. That is selfish. I'm SO glad my parents and grandparents weren't satisfied with progress in the 60s...they KEPT marching and protesting and achieving as long as they physically could, as long as they saw need.

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