Have recently ran into two opposing points of views online through Reddit: Red Pill vs. Female Dating Strategy. Seems toxic, but do any of you actually live by these methodologies?

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There’s merit to both - in moderation.

From a M perspective, red pill prioritizes men’s interests first and foremost without much regard for the other side which is ridiculous, but the idea behind it is 100% correct in the sense that in today’s world men are taught to coddle to women and put them on pedestals (namely because of competition). As a result men are “fake nice” which leads to further issues down the road.

While you should always be sincere in your pursuits and not treat the other person as merely a number, men DO have to “nut up”, make sure their needs are tended to, and know when to walk away or simply disregard a woman when she makes it obvious she’s playing hard to get.

likefunny

I posted a quote from Elena Ferrante on a previous thread and once posted one from the blogger Dear Coquette that I believe get at the heart of dating issues today and have led to both these strategies

TLDR Ferrante: the rules that once governed male and female behavior have collapsed (which is good because it used to be a patriarchal nightmare) but no new ones have emerged and now no one knows how to act

TLDR Coquette: These days we have stopped marrying our neighbors or whoever our parents set us up with, and now everyone thinks they deserve a high value well adjusted partner when both genders typically attract someone in a similar state as them. So, if you don’t do your work (and really this means PSYCHOLOGICAL WORK) your not going to get an amazing partner.

So, I believe this situation is an outgrowth of the confusion and expectation misalignments summarized by these points. I agree that both make some reasonable points at the start but end up largely reinforcing toxic masculinity (red pill) and toxic patterns desiring extreme control - often associated with folks who experienced a lot of trauma (women!) they haven’t dealt with trying to regain and ensure safety/control (fds). Neither of these strategies focus on becoming emotionally healthy and whole in the way that would really lead to healthy, happy relationships with high value partners. They are both focused on “better playing the dating game” rather than focused on building skills that make you a better partner/friend/community member/person which would be 1) more effective 2) more fulfilling 3) better for everyone in the world lol.

likesmart

I hope in a good way ;)

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It’s not really fair to compare the two; read 20 posts in both subs and then make a judgment. One of them (TRP) has been banned multiple times and jumped around new subreddits, ultimately moving off platform to uncensored territory, which says a lot..

FDS: group of women, many come from abusives backgrounds, were groomed or taken advantage of or treated like doormats in previous relationships. Their general mantra is “take care of yourself, don’t bow to any man, know your worth, find an equally high worth man”. Discussion of high value men (which do exist) includes how they take care of you, treat you as an equal, and love you. Their biggest toxic factor is they want men to pay for dates.

TRP mentality: how to have as much sex as possible, discussion of “spinning plates”, rejection of commitment, generally place low-to-non-existent value on women. Discussion of valuable women is limited to hotness, willingness to have sex, and submissiveness (housekeeper/cleaning).

likesmart

If you read the posts on TRP that’s what you’ll find. Not a group of men trying to level up for interesting, intelligent, competent women. These men rate women based on how DTF they are and what they do for them (cleaning, cooking). I’m not making this up, just read the posts and comments.

likesmart

I know someone who loves redpill and he’s a huge piece of crap when it comes to women.

likesmart

A1, come to my safe space

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They both have good foundations that are incredibly misguided at their fringes. I would like to think it's good for anyone to understand both but not at the risk of falling down the rabbit hole

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This. They both start with a few truths about biology and evolution and take that, stretch it and run with it to the extremes where it means the other gender are the most evil people so you should be as terrible back

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I’ve read a lot of red pill (and other dating books) and while the literature needs to be read critically, much of it isn’t inherently misogynistic.

It explains the core of male-female sexual and dating dynamics by acknowledging and providing a “playbook” for men who are trying to maximize their options. It does this quite ruthlessly by dismissing the dating rules that women typically want men to follow. It provides guidance on how to not end up in a sexless marriage, how to date great women, and how to ensure you’re not getting taken advantage of.

Men and women are different in how we experience romance, sexual attraction, and commitment. This isn’t a bad thing, it’s just a reality.

smartlike

Well said SC1

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Just be normal

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Yes, using a strategy isn’t going to get you to most people’s ultimate goal of a healthy relationship. You may “win” but what does that really get you?

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what’s toxic about it?

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Look it up, it just looks like it’s both sides trying to “out-play” each other

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How about this—if you like someone, you let them know. If they like you back, great. If they don’t, you both move on. Repeat until you find someone you are compatible with. We don’t need strategies.

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That would require people to be rational.

likesmart

I have not read either of them, other than a few posts on TRP a while back due to someone I dated in the past talking about it. He talked about it in terms of a friend of his who had trouble dating (perfectly nice guy, just a little socially awkward), and the way he explained it to me was that men needed to essentially play hard to get to take control away from women. I don’t remember what I actually read, but this is what I got from my ex who also had a lot of insecurity issues and was the kind of guy who wanted to bring me down to lift himself up, so he probably got what he wanted to from it, so his interpretation may not be everyone’s.

Can someone summarize the FDS for me? I tried looking into it once and it just seemed like a bunch of rambling feminists without any kind of strategy.

1) “I’m a strong woman who don’t need no man (except to pay for things).”

2) A bunch of people who, instead of processing trauma in healthy ways, are forcing everyone else to deal with their shit.

Always follow the Redpill. Be yourself, understand the world around you, stop letting the world feed you what it wants you to believe. Only then will you be free.

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