{ "media_type": "text", "post_content": "Hi \n\nThis is a lengthy post, about a family matter. I am seeking some advice from the community. \nI am a married mother of a boy who is in Pre-K. I have been married for 8 years now. Contd..", "post_id": "5eb091c247b3510022bbef97", "reply_count": 160, "vote_count": 5, "bowl_id": "58f8108c753e990016608a0b", "bowl_name": "Desi Consultants", "feed_type": "bowl" }

Hi

This is a lengthy post, about a family matter. I am seeking some advice from the community.
I am a married mother of a boy who is in Pre-K. I have been married for 8 years now. Contd..

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I feel for you OP - this seems like a pretty challenging scenario. Notwithstanding the virtue signaling folks who are falling over each other to label your husband a sexist, misogynist jerk etc. such disagreements are rarely solved by pure logic or spreadsheets. Most of the naive suggestions (even if they come forth from a genius like the MBB Principal above) made here are to win an argument and lose a relationship. What is reasonable or unreasonable is completely a function of what the two of decide within the contours of your relationship.
At the outset this is clearly a difference in value systems and this clash was almost unavoidable given the contrasting environments you grew up in. Given the subjectivity involved in this issue its practically pointless to argue who’s point of view is valid or not so theres limited upside in trying to change his mind.

I would use some of these questions as pointers to frame your path forward:
1. Have there been any instances in the past where he has gradually changed his behavior? Anything that can be applied to this situation?
2. What can be done to ensure a more equitable split on household chores to both parties’ satisfaction?
3. Can these chores be outsourced once the situation normalizes?
4. Can I be with someone long term if they hold such views on women that I find troubling? Or is it just this specific issue that’s the problem?
The faster you choose to jettison the notion that you can change his views, the faster you will arrive at a practical solution. Your husband’s views are not going to change because you cannot go back and reprogram his past that is the basis of his objective reality. Just as he needs to accept you for who you are, you need to accept him for what he is and encourage him to gradually change (with the understanding that he may not change in the end). Ultimately no easy solution (maybe both of you choose to agree to disagree) am hopeful you will be able to sort it out since you’ve come so far without this topic causing deep disagreements in the past. All the best!

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Have you read everything that OP has said?

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OP - 1) don’t get into spreadsheet (whoever started it).. that’s pointing fingers

2) Are you expected cook three meals? If not just cook it once in a day, may be two dishes.. are you using modern appliances where you don’t have to spend too much time in kitchen? I.e try instant pot... Sometimes being an Indian we are driven by values we have been bombarded with and we prioritize those even though it may not fit in the environment you are living in...

3) Raising gender based arguments is completely stupid and childish...

4) Go grocery shopping together (I understand now it’s different time with Covid) make it a family day.. grab a lunch after groceries or something

5) Taking care of toddler is more daunting task than cooking.. as mom you also know that... I’m not saying this warrants him not to contribute

6) I can pretty much do everything except keeping the baby for 9 months.. that includes cooking, cleaning taking care of my 3 year old daughter etc. etc. But does that give me a right to make derogatory comments to my partner the answer is No.

7) as human we have got to a point where we try to defend or overshadow someone’s effort by leveraging our financial independence as justification for our behavior... look past that everyone still needs emotional support, affection and respect.... Please don’t use that in relationship ask him to do the same

I’m male, father of 3 year old daughter, husband of bipolar spouse...

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I am a man and I completely disagree with what your husband said. There needs to be equal share in responsibilities. Unfortunately that was the mentality of some of our parents when women were housewives but his statements seem very regressive in this day and age.

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I wish this wouldn’t need to be said but I am going to say it anyway - Please no one be jerks to OP here. She is under enough stress as is.

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Don’t call out Vice President like that.. lol 😝

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I would like you to know that I am a North Indian man. Yesterday, I signed a new 7-figure contract in the morning and mopped/broomed the beautiful hard wood floor of my house in the evening (not because of a spill or anything but because my wife had been working hard all day and we hadn’t had time to clean over the weekend preparing for a virtual birthday party for my younger daughter).
I would also like you to know that my wife works full time on IT projects and we have two daughters.
I am in my late 30s.

Housework, like marriage, is a team sport. You only win if everyone contributes.

I respect everyone’s perspectives but honestly, at least In my opinion, traditional gender roles are so last-century!

Find ways to do things together instead of divvying up chores. All the best.

likeuplifting

I think we should all progress to a place where we can say we’re all feminists.

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It is an unfortunate time where women are made more independent while men are not learning new skills and not learning being responsible. They depend on their mothers their whole life and then expect the same comfort from their spouses. You can’t change much except a compromise against your values or not choosing to live in such a situation.

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Agreed - seems like some men need to learn to be more independent rather than relying on their wives.

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Sounds like some adjustment is needed from both sides. We only have your version of the story so am trying to balance. If your husband doesn't like housework, then make him get grocery. If you cook, he cleans. If he cooks, you load the dishwasher. If both of you don't cook, he drives to get something to eat. If you clean the shower and toilet, he has to nappy change the baby the whole day. He can take the trash out as well. If you clean the house, then he has to look after the baby that day including food, drinks, snot cleaning and keeping the child occupied so you can have some downtime after cleaning. I'm sure you get the drift. My SO doesn't know how to drive and I didn't force SO to learn. So I do all work that involves driving such as grocery etc. In return, SO takes care of all the cleaning in between maid visits. Both of us take turns cooking but SO always cleans because I do my part driving for things plus I take out the trash to the curbside. SO loads laundry, I put it in the dryer and SO folds. In return I clean the toilet bowls because SO doesn't like doing that. SO also has a full time job. This is how we figured it out and we rarely have arguments about these chores.

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VP1, yeah just read her other post. I stand corrected if there was history of violence.

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Hey OP. Wow that was a long read.


Your husband is a d**k and a man child. To avoid doing chores he left his kid and his wife and became misogynistic.

Maybe there’s more to it, maybe he feels insecure or something. Maybe you really did nag him a lot and it got to him.
But there’s better responses to that then the way he behaved. And it seems like you’ve made plenty of attempts to reason with him and communicate with him.
Eitherway I don’t think you’re in the wrong, if you can’t find a compromise and his response continues to be like the above. It might be time to call it quits.

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Ok, if he’s hitting you, then this is over. An abuser is not going to learn anything different and will repeat his obnoxious behavior. Kick his ass out and move on

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@A1 I never denied that... as I said my spouse is bipolar and I live this through every day... so keep your judgemental comments with you..

All I’m asking OP is just make sure that person is in safe hand.. life is valuable regardless of the mental status of the person.. and there are are work around without letting OP know.. taking family members on both side in confidence

It’s her life.. it’s her decision to ride it out or leave her husband

Geez OP, Your husband physically abusing you is far more serious than the unequal division of labor at home! This post just got so dark.

You have plenty of great advice here from strangers who wish the best for you and your son. I hope you are also leaning on your family and friends for support. I hope you make the decision of leaving the jerk and follow through for the sake of your child!

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OP here is how you can resolve
Cleaning house - get robotic vaccum and once every two week a cleaning lady
For laundry - alternate weeks and if husband refuses to help, start getting it laundered and husband can pick an drop.
Food - get pre cooked food if you are into Indian food else go with salads and ready to eat stuff.

Yes it is a change of lifestyle. But in the end, the man will realize to man up and help you to reduce cost of living or this is going to be new normal.
Hope this helps.

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She can make all that adjustments and live peacefully without him.

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Don’t overthink. Do what you can. As much as you can. Let him pick up the rest. What needs to be done but hasn’t been. If after some time he feels you’re not able to cope he may just lend his hand here and there more often than now ie if he’s a good husband. Things can’t be set in stone every time I feel. You do this I do that. Sometimes you just don’t feel like folding laundry but may feel like you can mop the floors. It may be different some other times. Keep it open ended. It’s a household, not a hotel. Things just need to be done. Not necessarily within a certain time frame. I repeat: do not overthink. If you’re in a situation where you have to sit down with your husband to divide the chores just because he hasn’t been contributing, have a talk. Even if after he doesn’t then it’s not worth the mind f*ck.

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Totally agree with this comment

OP.. I grew up in a family similar to yours. My Mom , despite being smarter and hardworking, had to sacrifice her career and stayed home and my dad enjoyed life (although he claims to have his own challenges). Now that we all have grown up, none of my siblings and I care for my dad. He realized that his job was more than just earning and dictating task to my mom. However, my mom never got the fulfilling life she deserved. All she has is a husband, whom none of her children like, and endless apologies from this man only for the sake that he is not abandoned.
If your husband is a free loader, kick his ass and walk away. 8 years is a long time and not worth of mental trauma. Don’t let him exploit you with hypothetical insecurity of having to spend life alone and die alone.

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Where them “there’s two side to the story”, “divide up the chores” crowd at now?

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Wow, SM2 sounds like a wonderful project lead. He/She makes up her mind before considering all inputs and then if their view is right, proceeds to mock everyone else!

Hey SM2, even a stopped clock is right twice a day! That ain’t the measure, Gotta hear everything out before deciding/advising!

Hope this helps!

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In addition to all this, carve out 5 hours a week for yourself where you put yourself first -be it sit and relax, read a book, workout, facial, etc. set boundaries with him and tell him he’s expected to take care of the kid and other chores during that time.

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Also please ask him why he didn’t choose to marry someone from northern part of country with limited education and who is apparently happier

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OP ..i would say reach out to a counselor for proper advice along with your husband if possible . husbands or wives tend to say nasty things to each other in arguments that stretches unduly. they may not necessarily mean that..these are very small things ...do not discuss these with total strangers on social media who has no impact on your well being..ignore everyone who instantly advising you for divorce based on few sentences on bowl .your husband might care for you more than these strangers...give it a proper thought..and go for family counseling..whatever decision you take after that ..will be a well thought one

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@D2 just cause someone cares for you doesn’t mean they’re not a shitty person. Sure husbands and wives might get into intense arguments. But going into misogyny is a bit much don’t you think?

Counseling may be a good idea, but this definitely isn’t something you can just brush off as something people might say in a marriage.

Thanks M5, I know a Manager who jumps to conclusions and projects his/her experience on things he/she has NO first hand experience about, possible this person should not try to extrapolate?

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D4 is recommend you scroll down and do some reading yourself!

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Thanks for all the advice, it is very helpful to look t oneself from another perspective. Someone here mentioned he has a bipolar wife, and he does a lot of work. I can empathize with him, and happy he has shouldered a lot of responsibilities, maybe even more than he should. My husband told himself he knows he is not doing enough work, nowhere close to what I do. For that he blames me, that if I was more loving, caring, didn't ask him to do things, he would make me fly in the moon. But I have never seen him lift a finger unless asked, and that too if asked more than twice when something is not done for weeks, that's when the male-female argument starts. Noone likes spreadsheets, but there are some people who think, what work does she have! It was my idea, but he agreed to pick around 1/3 of the work in the beginning, and I was happy with it.

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The way he’s handling this is so wrong. Borderline gaslighting. You need a break

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OP your husband has the opinions he does and physically lashed out at you as a way to compensate for his own shortcomings. He feels emasculated after everything that’s happened. That’s not your problem- he’s a small man.

By staying with him- you’re making life worse for your son. You think he doesn’t know, but he picks up on these things. What kind of man do you want your son to be? What kind of life do you want for yourself?

Like someone said- you’re young, you’re strong, don’t put up with this. Truly there is no outcome from this which is positive. You’re doing more damage to your son and yourself by staying with him.

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My husband and I have a lot of arguments around the distribution of chores in the household. I am an Indian, married to another Indian, but from totally different cultures, and family backgrounds.
My parents, both well educated, brought me and my sisters up in a gender neutral setup. We were not "taught" to cook/clean for an after-marriage life, but the expectation was that we should know life skills, how to cook, clean, but more importantly be independent. I don't have a brother, but even if I had one, parents would expect the same from him.
Growing up, my parents wanted us to get good grades, do well at school, and gender was never a topic that mattered while deciding how much money to spend on our education. My dad and many other men from my neighborhood would actively handle household chores, whatever worked for that family.
That said, I am now a perfectly independent woman, capable of making my own decisions, manage my finances, hold a full time job, feed my child, while doing 100% cooking and almost 100% cleaning.
My husband vacuums our 2 bedroom apartment, twice a month and takes out the trash, and does occasional laundry, but doesn't fold my/my son's clothes. I shop groceries, clean the bathrooms, kitchen, do laundry, fold clothes, change sheets, etc., numerous household tasks, that no one notices except the person doing it.
My husband helps my son brush his teeth, gives him a bath, and puts him to bed daily. On a daily basis, I do lot more work than my husband. My husband is an excellent father, but a miserable husband. He spends an hour with my son teaching him, this just started a month ago while the COVID-19 lockdown started. I know I too have to spend some time teaching my son daily, I just started doing this three days ago, but would make this my routine too.

While having an argument on household chore distribution, I told my husband that I expect him to do more. I cook 3 meals a day. We tried making a spreadsheet with all the chores, I asked him to pick things he wanted to do, and I would pick the rest. that didn't work, because he never stuck with the plan. I don't feel comfortable reminding him with the checklist, I feel people should be more responsible and do the chores they promised to do.
Now my husband tells, he thinks dividing chores is robotic. He is okay picking up things here and there, but doesn't want assigned tasks. I told him a house cannot run smoothly without both parents putting in their share, especially when both are working. He replied that it is my upbringing that is at fault, and that girls and boys should be raised with traditional gender roles, and more options for both women/men is bad for a family's happiness. He cited the example of how women in northern parts of the country are more happier, and have happier families because of the limited education, and also because they were raised in traditional roles. He also blames the availability of more options as a leading cause of unhappy families, divorces, etc. He also asked me why women scored less in math in competitive tests than men, and why women and men don't compete together in sports, or why even in military, women are not equal to men. This is to say that when I answer these questions, I should know that men are not meant to do household tasks as nature's rule, but women imposed these on men. If I don't like household work, any more than he does, it is my upbringing that is to be blamed. If I expect him to make a cup of tea, while my friends are around, and serve us, it is me being mentally ill, but the other way around is perfectly fine. Finally, it all ended, by him leaving the house, saying I am destined to live and die alone, because women/feminists like me are never going to be happy.

Now, tell me where am I going wrong. Is it wrong to expect a husband to divide chores, and work with a plan? Is it robotic to discuss about who is doing what? Do women because of their implied lesser knowledge of mathematics, have a higher responsibility and should take a bigger load of housework than the men in the house?


Thank you!

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Holy shit, some of this reminds me of the arguments I had with my wife. But then that’s because I am lazy. I help wife in cooking 2 times a week and cleaning. We don’t have kids yet. I need to do more.

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