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Atheists in Consulting

How do atheists feel about the universe coming to being out of nothing? How does 0+0=1?

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So my humble opinion is that we simply don’t know. I’m also ready to accept that my known concepts of space and time may not be meaningful when answering that question. For example, I’m ready to accept that there is no “before” the start of the universe, and that time started with the Big Bang. It’s frustrating not being able to comprehend that. I’m also ready to accept that there the Universe was a quantum event, and came into being just because. When matter and anti-matter collide, they can cancel each other out. I’m ready to believe the reverse might be possible. What I do need to see though, in every single case, is evidence. What I can’t believe is the concept of a God....

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I'm comfortable with "I don't know." I don't need a god of the gaps. a gap, BTW, that does indeed get smaller and smaller every day as we endeavor to learn more because some people aren't satisfied with, "... because God ...". I'm still okay if it doesn't totally close. I'll never fill it in with magic.

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How do the religious feel about God coming to being out of nothing? How does 0+0=1?

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Sounds good! Personal message me or type here if you get some time to explain.

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I love this debate - entirely what was missing from the forum (or you get caught up with the hysteria of religion)... Look, I don’t say you’re wrong - because I don’t know and I wouldn’t presume to know. And that is the thing - until we know, philosophical arguments can only get you so far. Religion once stated that thunderstorms were messages from God, now we know about weather patterns. Religion once said the earth was the center of the universe, now we know about heliocentricity. Religion once said that illness was linked to sin, now we have microbial theory. So, as science progresses, I think the religious ground decreases. I think it will only be a matter of time before we can give a definitive answer to the origin of the Universe. I just hope it’s in my lifetime:)

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This is the classical Cosmological argument - I’ve seen William Lane Craig make it a number of times and it’s also prominent in his book “Reasonable Faith”. It’s easily refutable - primarily by knowledge of physics - quantum events don’t need a cause, they just happen (one of a few reasons). When you say “this thing that pushed” it assumes things without any justification... I get the philosophical side of “everything that exists must have had a cause” but we know now that (and again it’s not natural to understand this) that this isn’t true!

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I don’t think that line of reasoning works. You are making the “nothing fallacy” that Lawrence Krauss has been accused of, where you define nothing as something other than it is. Nothing is nothing and nothing more. If you bring in quantum physics, you are bringing in “something.” So when you say quantum events don’t need a cause (which is only true about some levels of quantum physics), you are talking about quantum physics AFTER it existed already.

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So if we look at the beginning of the universe we find that space-time and matter have a beginning at a single point, and all in the same moment. The question is, what caused space-time and matter to come into existence? I think this is where the two answers above come in - “I don’t know.” And they’re right to an extent. We can’t know what they are, BUT we can know what they are not. Namely, “space-time and matter.” Otherwise we are saying space created space, matter created matter, and time created time. But of course that’s nonsense. But if whatever this thing is that pushed space-time and matter into existence cannot be “time”, that means it’s “timeless” (eternal), and if it’s not “space” then it’s space-less (infinite), and if it’s not “matter” then it’s immaterial (???), which are three words to describe the, frankly, supernatural. Food for thought.

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if laughter makes me childish I'll stay a child forever. I laugh at what I find amusing. I guess you missed the part where I said, "okay seriously"? I said I don't know and a will not make up stuff without evidence. what you described is not a logical fallacy. look those up. what you described is a logical inconsistency. you had no logic, you had leaps of logic. time to timeless ... and eternal? please. no one is actually saying the universe sprung from nothing except theists that want to try to have this debate by talking about something coming from nothing and use it as some way to prove their point yes I've had this debate before. I'll admit I haven't heard your woowoo before, but it sounds a lot like Depak Chopra's word salad. I'm not the one who was talking about time and no time, that was your assertion and I don't have to reconcile it. when push comes two shove you are trying to use logic to prove something with no evidence. logic is the first place to start to form a hypothesis. but then you need evidence otherwise it's just so much talking proving nothing.

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It’s not exactly 0+0=1. According to second law of thermodynamics the entropy of a closed system will keep increasing over time. Big bang is a misnomer that gives the impression that there was an explosion from which time and space came out and before that nothing. However, since the space is ever expanding it must have started from a minuscule point. However, this is where we lose track and physics fails. That doesn’t mean it came out of nothing. Also, I am comfortable not knowing the answer and would rather wait and hope that I have some answers in my life.

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OP, since you’re looking to discuss based on definitions, laws of physics, and logical theories, can I ask what your definition of “god” is?

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great appeal to authority. what is his evidence for such fact? fact is we don't know and we have limited evidence from which to form a hypothesis. we have no evidence or reason to suspect what came before our observable universe was anything remotely sentient. we are then still left with the question of it's origin. we are still left with the question what do you mean by supernatural? that word alone has the premise that there is natural vs supernatural as if there is some binary choice that must be made when classifying the things we observe. if we see it, feel it, measure it, or by any other means confirm a thing, is it not then natural? is something supernatural if we cannot confirm its existence?

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The law of conservation of energy is kind of not the whole picture. Light from distant bodies loses energy and we don't know where it goes (red shifting) We don't know what happens inside wormholes and blackholes. There is a lot we don't know about the cosmos, Big Bang itself is a hugely mysterious phenomenon, and how, when and why it happens is unknown. But nothing so far points towards any diety or intent.

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