How far in data science can you go without a PhD or even solid math background?
I was never even taught linear algebra but I've been doing DS R&D (basically very fancy feature engineering) based...

like
Posting as :
works at
You are currently posting as works at

i run a 60m analytics practice with a ba :)

like

on and improving on academic papers, for a client problem.
I've been able to get away without the deep math stuff cause I'm a good coder and I can quickly understand the intuition (and algorithms too) of a lot of ML so long as I stay away from the actual mechanics of the math.
I get lost when we go as deep as stuff like the difference between the different ways PCA is calculated (which, I know, isn't that deep) or how exactly deep learning *really* works.

I've been able to do good work but I think I have some serious imposter syndrome when looking at exit opportunities for AI/ML

like

👆🏻 this.

You can’t really understand the full functionality behind an algo without the math. I was told in my data science career that you should never use an algo unless you understand the math because they can too easily be misused especially if they are preprogrammed in some capacity.

But I will say that a PhD is not the requirement to understand the math.

like

The math in applied ML/DS is not very advanced, mostly college freshman level calculus, stats, and lin alg. You can very easily make up for it with a couple of online courses. Source: was math major in college and did MS in CS/ML.

like

The PhD is only *necessary* for a small fraction of employees when you really need something to work and can't afford a pilot. When you need theoretical justification with guaranteed error bounds etc. Or when you have a true research team which has a need to employ theorists.

In practice, businesses don't run this way. A pilot is enough for almost all situations and pure research is extremely risky as monetization goes. Most don't have a need for PhDs who can casually use terms like "Hilbert space." Learning to read the rest of the math and even experiment is most often attained via mathy masters (usually) or bachelors. Don't have to be a physicist or applied math major either, softer ones like econ or analytics will do. Pure CS is a tossup since someone could've "skipped the math" in that, though there are advantages for cleaner code and deployment there.

like

Problem formulation and related statistically valid data preparation is generally a business analytics / product management problem and does not require a PhD. When it does, just any PhD won't do: don't hire a physicist to work on agricultural products when you need that level of domain expertise.

You're right that doctors have a tendency to expect special treatment more though, which is a reason against hiring if anything.

like

True. Not required. There are now math degrees focused on understanding algorithms, and many computer/robotics engineering degrees delve into them enough to gain from self study.

like

There's all these schools like Galvanize, Flatiron School, and a few others that claim data science specialty. However, they say you do not need a Ph.D. to apply but the audition interview processes are rigorous enough to require it. I required data science for my program because at the end of my masters I knew I'd need it. Those extra data science schools are appealing if I ever get an honest permanent employer that's not attempting to throw a bunch of ego at me to afford it. They might go beyond current skills. I like how many of them bring in employers and allow pay as you earn while they do their own recruitment. They have different associated employers too. Galvanize is directly related to Elon Musk businesses and it's either Flatiron or Thinkful that is directly related to both Boeing and Northrup Grumman. While I'd like my AI monitored and controlled dam to come to fruition, the fish population counts and some of the diving tourist attractions in Spain mean they are a great start for sharing knowledge with Turkey about how to administer their upcoming dam, so instead of those routes for the ML, I agree with Elon that it's time to start working on some AI policy, including finding avenues for case law. In that regard, I don't need it except for SQL or Python inquiries into the case law, which I still don't need THOSE schools for it since I know that on my own studies :). I have a few more case law agendas to work through. Dam, that guy is now looking like an ego jerk, I am really starting to like Elon, despite long family histories. I'm way better than all that, lol.

I couldn't agree more about the area-specific stuff. I have had multiple experiences with law firms, big and small, and in pro bono affairs. I've had courses in law, administrative justice, and regulations. I also have experience preparing permits, writing permitting manuals, and writing policy. My Ph.D. is in Business Management with a leadership specialization, so it says leadership on the degree. My expertise is needed for data extraction, evaluation, reconciliation, interpretation, and strategizing. So, creating a new department at a law firm, starting a metrics program, and generating strategy to more smoothly grow a law firm. Its also good for politics and designing prism for locating additions to case law to use for developing policy to transfer into politics. However, if the goal is just for reporting dashboards unless you need to interpret for anomalies then investigate the anomalies, it's probably less expensive to hire someone with fewer credentials. However, if it takes multiple people with fewer credentials to do what you need and a Ph.D. can do it themselves and possibly more, it names zero sense to go the extra labor route since that ends up way more expensive.

All that being said, I wanted to add ->. I am not good at plant identification beyond Brazilian nuts and orchids, a squirrel is a squirrel unless it flies, cows can have as many shaped spots as they they, they are just a cow, but horses, you know what??? That's a love story :)

You’re fine for any type of strategy role but depends on what you want as a exit

Related Posts

So my internship is over this week and I fucked up bigly. Didn't manage to get an offer while others did. Didn't get my book reviewed by anyone. Never got any guidance because my mentor was .. (contd)

like

Can someone provide a good description of what a paid search and social media buyer does? Even a day to day task? Is there a difference between that and a ppc paid search specialist? Explain the diff?

There doesn’t seem to be much of a UK presence on this app so that’s why I created this bowl!
Hopefully get more people and stuff going on soon...

like

With new considerations for full-time remote work given the pandemic, has anyone heard of hires internationally at agencies? For example, if an agency office in London has a remote option, do they even consider candidates from the U.S. or will the time difference be too great to make it work?

like

I'm sorry if this is out of place, but is anyone interested in coming on my veteran podcast? I work for a Nonprofit Organization that provides supportive services to veterans in CA, NV and AZ and our podcast discusses issues relevant to veterans. I'm organically searching for veterans who are willing to talk about their experiences, mental health and healthcare, employment, case management, housing for the homeless, etc. We don't require you to be an expert on anything.

likehelpful

How do you transfer files to your personal devices for your portfolio with strict company IT?

like

I am literally at my witt’s end with my job..I don’t know if it’s because I’m burned out or just hate the job but I constantly have clients bitching about their lives or wasting my time or the boss bitching that my receivables are low (despite the fact that i am hitting my billable target). I honestly can’t do this anymore and am looking for work elsewhere. Any tips on how to survive until Christmas?

like

First time donating to Goodwill as an adult. Feeling good 😁

like

Hi Fishes . I have joined In the month on June and been a top performer/Rolemodel . How hike should I expect ?

Does accentuate send on-site to European countries for projects?

like
like

Hello fishes ,

I have total of 2 yrs experience, 1 yr on power BI (Good with SQL + Good with Python + Conceptual basics in ML ) . How much LPA ,
I can expect for my next job ?

Help me with this fishes ?

like

Let’s talk about company culture. What makes a great company culture? Why have you stayed with your firm for an extended amount of time? Or what do you wish your company did better?

like

What percent of salary is your RRSP match or pension? Please feel free to comment even if it's zero so we have a full picture

like

Hannity declared Trump the winner guys! Go home election's over

funnylike

This bowl is a way for high school English teachers to share lesson/unit plans, activities, resources, etc.!

like

Has anyone here gotten the RSV virus that’s running through the south? Got it, now in day 16 of 100-102 degree fevers, headaches, sore throat, nasty cough. This thing is no joke, Covid isn’t the only thing that can take you out

like

****Need help**** Got an offer in pinelabs mumbai location.. Confused whether to go for this organisation or not. How is the growth and stability and job security?.. Thanks in advance

What's the best way or best website to find roommates?

like

In the below picture on the two Variable components how it is paid ?? Why there are two components ? Can someone explain HCL Technologies

Post Photo
like

Additional Posts in Data & Analytics Consultants

Best free visualization tools?

like

I feel like rushing my career in Data science. The market is moving very quickly. I have this urge to jump to new adventures seeking more interesting challenges and trying to be always up to date.

Currently have 5 YOE in DS consulting

Firm is reimbursing 2k for certs - any recommendations from the list? Currently doing RPA/Alteryx/Power BI and want to pivot towards DS/AI/ML with a splash of data management and RPA. Have prior coding exp in R/SQL/Python. TIA

Post Photo
like

Can someone explain what’s the difference between EDM technology/tool and DWH?

like

I’m about to get staffed on an assessment analytics role using Microsoft Access and SQL, neither which I have any familiarity with. Role starts in 2 weeks. Any suggestions on resources and quick maths

like

Any neural net cheat sheet out there? Interviewing soon and need to refresh memories 🙏🙏 things like cost functions, pros and cons of different activation functions, graphs, RNN, CNN

like

Potentially building a analytics/DS team at a PE focused on improving operations/value capture in portfolio companies. Looking for people with an OR background that can play across supply chain & data science. Strong proficiency in building optimization models (cplex/gurobi) as well as metaheuristic models.

Anyone have this sort of experience? What is the pay range for an OR PhD (manager level)? Where should I be looking for this skill set? Who is the primary competition in the job market?

like

Two months ago I started using Datacamp and this week finished their data science frack in python + ~10 more courses. I feel like now I know enough to learn and read stackoverflow, but can anyone

like

Does anyone here work in the Data Science track for McKinsey marketing and sales group? Entered the interview process (post quanthub exam) and would looking for insight on what to expect from the live rounds.

like

Has anyone attended masters in data analytics, business analytics with non stem background?

like

Unbranched from my last post :

What are the ultimate career goals for someone with our experience and skillsets?

Data, Analytics, Consulting, Industry/functional
experience, maybe some tech..

Is it to be a Chief Data Officer or similar?

I've worked closely with several CDOs, and I'm not sure it's my dream..

I'm tired of showing organizations how to be "data-driven".
I think I can't stomach more "data governance" programs.

Having said that, I know a few CDOs with TC >$1M.

like

How to transition from Data Scientist to Machine Learning Engineer?

like

How are treasury analyst positions? Anyone in that area?

like

Puzzle time: You have got 12 eggs with one weighing differently. How would find that in minimum number of weighings? You have two sided weighing balance

like

What are the exit ops for someone <2 years into etl dev/data engineering/analytics? Not sure this is for me and I’m scared I’ll be stuck as a dev forever

like

I see a lot of people looking to transition from analytics to strategy consulting. What is driving this trend? I am thinking about making the opposite move as strategy work does not bring me fulfillment

like

Any one here familiar with KPMG Lighthouse? There are a number of openings in Atl I’d fit well for. My background is in distributed systems with tech like Kafka, Cassandra, tensorflow...

like

Anyone know much about World Wide Technology (WWT)? Interviewing there soon but can’t find much about company culture.

like

Anyone with a coupon code for Mosh Hamedani’s ~11 hours SQL tutorials on his website?

likefunny

What is comp for data scientists in industry? Searching around it seems pretty low 100-130k for non senior or management roles.

like

New to Fishbowl?

Download the Fishbowl app to
unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.
That was just a preview…
Sign Up to see all discussions
  • Discover what it’s like to work at companies from real professionals
  • Get candid advice from people in your field in a safe space
  • Chat and network with other professionals in your field
Sign up in seconds to unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.

Already a user?
Login here

Share

Embed this post

Copy and paste embed code on your site

Preview

Download the
Fishbowl app

See what’s happening in your industry
from the palm of your hand.

A phone with Fishbowl app

Send download link to your phone

OR

Scan your QR code to download
Fishbowl app on your mobile

By continuing you agree to Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.

Messaging rates may apply

Download app

Sign up for free to view this conversation on Fishbowl

By continuing you agree to Terms of Use and Privacy Policy

Already have an account? Log in

Sign up for free to continue using Fishbowl

By continuing you agree to Terms of Use(New) and Privacy Policy(New)
Messaging rates may apply

Already have an account? Log in

For account settings, visit Fishbowl on Desktop Browser or

General

Legal