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OP: did i not say you have attitude of "authority should be obeyed" . Your cia background only proves that. After all I could sense that. Now chill up and relax. Not every negotiation in the world works with obey the authority rule and clause. We have people working from military background in my project. We have great difficulty working with them too.
A conversation with Dao would have solved it or upping the rewards to volunteers would gave solved it. The captain of the flight must gave given nod to remove the person. After this incident every airline will think twice before calling airline marshals to ask for removing a person. They will add for sure a clause of being gentle or without force while removing. Both should be sued for exemplary amounts .
That's kind of pathetic though. It's throwing up a straw man saying that united sicing cops who defend corporate interests is just so different than united personally beating the man up. And it's defending the status quo as opposed to considering how things should be in a situation that maintains dignity and agency for the traveler, and suggests that the status quo matters more than human dignity. Pathetic.
Next time an airline asks you to bend over and take it, I'd love to see a video.
Op .. you are just growing up. So keep quite , observe and learn. Many cops have similar attitude like yours ( obey the authority) and that's why police brutality has increased so much. I can't imagine why blood has to come out if someone doesn't want to leave flight seat. Its not as if he is carrying a bomb with him. A conversation or upping the reward to volunteer would solve the problem. Now they will pay millions. Keep this in mind as you grow up in your career. Most likely your negotiation style will be like what united and airline marshals did.
United was stupid to be in this situation but I have don't have much sympathy for this guy. I mean shit his own wife got off the plane and he stayed in. He ain't exactly Rosa parks here. You listen to the police always. Esp on an airplane. United followed the law just was stupid to get in this situation
@d1 if I was united I wouldn't be apologizing. I would say - "when we tell someone to get off our plane - we expect them to do so. End of story. No exceptions. We will not be issue an apology. If you fly our planes - we take the law and rules seriously. Please do not fly our airline if you feel your demands/wishes are more important than following the rules we set out very plainly. For further explanation in this particular case please see attached memo"
OP, read united's contract of carriage - no where does it state that it can remove passengers or refuse transport if it needs to free up seats for its waylaid employees. They could have done that prior to boarding, but the passenger could be removed only under specific conditions once boarded.
OP, again, Dao in this case was not the person who violated his contract with the carrier, it was united who did, and as such he had every right to refuse removal. United should be held liable for not only breaching their contract, but also causing injury in the process of doing so.
It is just as if the cops show up at your door without warrant and demand to search, you have a right to refuse and they cannot force their way in and conduct a search
D1 How do you feel about shoplifting?
And then I would very plainly state the case the pilots wife did so eloquently - I want the airline I fly to remove anyone with any force necessary who is being belligerent about obeying the rules to keep us all safe or to ensure flights crews get to where they are needed to fly the next plane.
What I don't understand is, even if united is partially liable for the physical removal, why are they liable for the assault? The cops used excessive force to get this man off the plane, and pretty much admitted that when their spokesperson said these cops weren't following SOP and have been put on leave. Even if I wrongly called the cops on someone to get them off my property, am I liable for every decision the cops make on /the way/ the removal happens? What if they decided to just punch this guy's face in for fun before dragging him off my property? That's certainly not what I expect when I call the cops. I get that his lawyers will want to stick the entire sequence of events on United, because they have deeper pockets, but I think United should only be liable for wrongly refusing to transport and maybe the trauma of being forcibly removed from the plane, not the fact that they smashed his face against an armrest before dragging him off.
^ I am outraged simply because the video showed how inhuman and insensitive they could gave been. Even the passengers were saying the same even if their flights were delayed. By this time airline crew must have sensed its all wrong. Then their CEO in a stupid act to avoid getting sued came out with the most embarrassing PR message. Now , I have seen plenty of videos of cops have used excessive force and how people will not do simple things. But never correlated themselves to my situation. It always seemed the people have brought this thing on themselves by not listening to cops. They myst be stupid and not practical. Here in this case it's actually little different. The person is elderly, fellow passenger and for some reason he doesn't want to leave flight... and why is that? Not everything in life follows according to copy book rules. The airline and Air Marshals in this case did exactly all things that can go wrong trying to enforce a rule.. where is your diplomacy, where is your negotiation skills, where is empathy , where is being human and where is being friendly skies. We have lost touch with basic foundations of being human.
C1, United is responsible for the assault. It is like the Felony Murder doctrine, you are responsible for all deaths that occur during the commission of a felony- for ex. If you and an accomplice were robbing a bank and the police could killed your accomplice, you could be charged with murder. It comes down to, did UA have the right to refuse transportation to Dao to seat one of their employees or were they in violation of their contract with the passenger
And, again his rights were infringed when he was asked to remove himself from the airplane not reasons that were not part of his contract with the carrier. While we can argue about that till the cows come home, it is a question for the courts. I doubt if united will ever let the courts rule on this, instead going the settlement route and admit no wrongdoing
Thoughtful commentary on the United situation
*issuing
Komg1 making assumptions - I am 35 and have worked for CIA / have my top secret. Compartmented and life style clearances. Our job was to keep you safe. This isn't about accepting authority without question - I am all for it - but there is a time and place to do it.
E.g When I lived in Shanghai -and watched Chinese men and women be carried out of expat churches Bc it was against the "law" - that is a time to challenge authority - this was not a place to do it - I have 3 children - I make mistakes in my decisions all the time - but in no way is it acceptable for children to throw tantrums Bc they don't like my decisions - United and the fed govt decisions may be wrong at times - but again it is not acceptable to just throw tantrums in airplanes -Mr, dao is not a hero - he is not Rosa parks -he is a bad example of someone who wanted his way and was going to inconvenience everyone else on the plane to do so.