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PwC PS - how’s the transition going?
Back end or front end?
What type of laptops does BDO give in the US ?
Hi Fishes,
How's the hike % ?
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For a doubling of comp you can buy a well appointed Aston Martin to make up for the loss of brand prestige. Joking aside, it’s not uncommon for firms to look outside for talent at all levels. You’d be surprised the work Big 4 strategy firms assist with. Most prevalent is m&a related work given our brands, but also a lot of operating strategy and operating model transformation studies, as well as the ability to take a strategy through implementation which is candidly cool to be a part of. The teams are comprised of great outside hires, internally developed folks, and in some cases integrated acquisitions. I’ve also found that most clients don’t think of “prestige” when hiring consultants. It sounds like an interesting opportunity. Might recommend a shift in mindset and see the positives here!
Of course - and for reference I was at Booz&Co and post that acquisition have found Big 4 to be a great place. Challenges for sure and irritations around audit conflicts but navigable. I also find the folks more collaborative than previously (perhaps because lack of up or out?)
I like to take things to the most basic components, so if you would allow me to reword… .
More interesting role with bigger leadership potential and more money vs being able to wear a hoodie with MBB logo on it.
Who cares, mate?!
Hehe. Of course there are other elements and considerations there, but I take your point.
Key differences (based on similar experience):
- Big 4 have big, but different, franchises. Big 4 have relationships EVERYWHERE. And those relationships extend up into the c-suite, but are built on non-strategy work. So your new firm will have C suite relationships but the C suite members will not necessarily believe your new firm has real strategy capabilities
- pricing is very very different, and I know you already know this, but you might still be shocked (I was). Big 4 are very nervous about trying to charge high rates, and that nervousness casts a shadow over the strategy practices’ pricing ability
- tremendous breadth and depth of operational capabilities. There are very smart, very accomplished experts and leaders in non-strategy operational roles. Figuring out to work with them effectively is one of the keys to success for Big 4 strategy partners.
- culture. In my experience the culture has been a plus; very supportive, very collaborative. But you’ll note some of the sensitivity in the comments on this thread to your “prestige” point. There’s suspiciousness and sensitivity about MBB and perceived intellectual arrogance. In my view this sometimes extends to suspiciousness of new ideas and provocative viewpoints generally- rather there’s a pride in “grinding it out” and getting things down (optimizing todays world rather than imagining and creating a different better tomorrow)
- resources: there are a lot of smart senior people at Big 4 firms, as well as a lot of people who may not be as smart, or may lack fancy educational pedigrees, but are very effective at doing what they do. Junior resources, though, will be weaker than what you are used to. There are smart juniors and you have to grab them when you can- but you should also anticipate that part of your job will be figuring out how to deploy less-strong resources effectively. It’s a slightly more industrial/corporate model- which can be an interesting challenge. But you’re less likely to luck into a brilliant 24 year old to whom you can delegate massively and get amazing results.
If I were you I’d be most nervous about the “different country” but I assume if you are considering the move you have some network or reason to believe you’ll be able to generate traction in that new geography.
P4, Excellent insights, consistent with my experience
I was 10 years at an MBB and 17 at a big 4. You will be amazed at all the capabilities at a big four that you will not find at an MBB. There's so much more you can bring to your clients.
Even if the median talent level at big 4 is a bit lower, their enormous size means that they have even more top notch people than any MBB. These top notch people are the ones that rise up and take on important leadership roles. Also, the strategy practices in big 4 firms recruit from the same top business schools as MBB, and they hire lots of people out of MBBs.
Coach
So you’re saying they’re not all plumbers and firemen? Whoda thunkit?
Mentor
It sounds like a good opportunity, and you’re trying to diligence it with your eyes wide open. Below is my view, which may be different from others. So please take it as one well-informed data point, but not gospel.
1. It is a downgrade in prestige and median talent level, but it sounds like you have no better option since you’ve hit a wall at your current firm. So, prestige should not be a factor in your evaluation.
2. The Big 4 is an excellent place to be, especially if you have the opportunity to build or expand a practice. But Big 4 is not created equal. The specific Big 4 and groups within are important. At a generic level, 1. Deloitte and PwC are tied, 3. EY is clearly behind, 4. KPMG is far behind.
3. At a more granular strategy & operations level, rankings are 1. S&, 2. EYP, 3. Deloitte, 4. KPMG
4. Make sure you have clarity on the comp and protection period. If you have decent tenure at MBB, you should be making at least $1.25M, but likely more. So you’re talking $2.5M. That’s a significant bump, so you should make sure you can take it to the bank, and there are no hidden downsides.
5. Working in a new country and a new firm is not trivial. Make sure you can be successful in the new country concerning norms, culture, language
6. And there’s nothing strange about the outreach; the mobility of people across firms has never been higher. Talent moves far and wide based on a firm’s needs. That’s good for the industry and the partners making the moves.
7. Lastly, don’t put the cart before the horse. It’s only a recruiter outreach. The actual decision to be made is when and if you have an offer in hand.
Thanks for the information and thoughtful comments. It was such a good idea to post here. I am at the point in which my next move is “a second conversation with the headhunter or not”. But I feel much more ready. Thanks again
Good luck with the change and new challenge! Don’t look back. Take it and make it your own. MBB will always be on you resume and now you’ll also have a international leadership role.
You are correct on both points. But who cares?
It is a downgrade in prestige. But who are you trying to impress? Go out and ask people outside of consulting what is they think of MBB or Big4, and I bet 90% have never heard of either. Most people would be more impressed with the amount you make at wherever pays you more.
The average talent is a downgrade as well. But who cares? This isn’t the Navy SEALS. You don’t need to have a team of the best of the best to do basic math in a spreadsheet and write bullet points for a very basic chart in a presentation.
Advise, if you’re as senior as you say you are, build a team based on exhibited actual skills / work ethic and not on the most prestigious school or brand name employers on their resume.
The brainwashing is strong with this one.
Don’t take the job. You won’t be successful coming in with that perspective.
Just a clarification on my post. My comments on prestige and talent pool are fears rather than facts or observations. I very much respect the big 4 and other competitors, else I would not be considering this option. Any thoughts or direct Experience very welcome
You will always think you took a downgrade. Dont
Nothing strange about it, Big4 are permanently hiring like this (due to the talent gap). Comes down to your “no advancement in current context” comment. If you are likely to be asked to leave in 1-2 years, this sounds like a good exit, assuming you have some platform in this different country. If you just mean it’s years of the same vs something new, would test with your current firm how they would redeploy you. A good trajectory at MBB always beats Big4 comp (beware of bonus promises, this isn’t AA)
It’s not about the accounting. It’s about how we get paid in Big 4. Although I hear some places may give out awards for extraordinary individual or team performance, for the most part its about firm performance and your share of the distribution thereof. There is no base + bonus. Variable pretty much ends when you make partner.
BCG1 and P4 make some very good points. Largely agree with all they have to say. One other add - in the US, when you move from MBB to Big 4 as a partner, you move from a W2 income to a K1 income. As a general rule, discount K1 income by 20% to get the equivalent W2 income due to taxation differences.
In your case, we don’t know the country you are looking to move to, but do your due diligence on parallels to the above.
It’s like a 6-8% increase in most places. Maybe upwards of 12% if in state income tax free
I also went from a Big 4 partner to Accenture and there is a huge difference in brand and talent which was very hard for me. Most people think I lost my mind to do this and I am beginning to think the same. I miss Big4 but I cannot appreciate the brand prestige or talent that comes with McKinsey.
No. Just different.
Suggest you ask around in your network for references about key partners in the Partner group. Was in a similar situation, and I wished I would know about the level of professionalism and expertise in the Partner group before switching. There is an risk that you might go down a level in terms of skills and expertise - at least that was my experience.
Suggest you go through the process with an open mind and judge for yourself.
Kpmg has a variable piece
New and smallish, correct, but also permanent going forward
I was big4 and joined Accenture in a group that is more tech than consulting. You will miss the talent. So please ensure there will be a supporting structure for you once you land.