{ "media_type": "text", "post_content": "I am not American so I don’t understand how all this can happen. But question for the white folks. How do you guys feel when these black murders occur? Do you feel like you can’t do anything about it? Kinda like how you’d feel if you saw a world vision poster of a starving kid in say, africa? What do you think you can do or do you feel powerless just as the black people feel?", "post_id": "5ecdf54f50eb0d001c989694", "reply_count": 184, "vote_count": 20, "bowl_id": "552d1d24dc1c586b09d2d051", "bowl_name": "Consulting", "feed_type": "crowd" }
null

I am not American so I don’t understand how all this can happen. But question for the white folks. How do you guys feel when these black murders occur? Do you feel like you can’t do anything about it? Kinda like how you’d feel if you saw a world vision poster of a starving kid in say, africa? What do you think you can do or do you feel powerless just as the black people feel?

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Maybe we should consider the type of people who are drawn to an authoritative position of power and justified violence, such as a police officer. There are thousands and thousands of great cops, and periodically there are awful ones who step out of line and do something like this.

However, despite how awful it is, you MUST understand volume statistics and frequencies and media selection bias. There is a media narrative to blow up this kind of story over others, and if you dont admit that then we cant get far into this issue. It will FEEL like this type of thing happens all the time because of high profile cases.

However, this is really a state by state and department by department issue. Dont lump together entire racial groups of people or all officers because of individual incidents. It does not necessarily indicate a systemic problem the way some people may insinuate (or hope) it does.

People need to question our relationship with police and how authority is bestowed on individuals and how we keep them accountable. That officer is 100% going to jail, but it takes time to put a case together. All these people jumping to diagnose structural societal issues probably didnt think very hard about it

likefunnysmart

So my father after he got out of the Navy went to law school and became a prosecutor. I spent time in junior high and high school riding along with police officers in a relatively affluent County outside Washington DC that still had a few bad neighborhoods with drugs shootings and stuff like that.

One thing that amazed me was the change in personality from guys I saw when I was in seventh or eighth grade to the cops four years later when I was a junior or senior.

The thing that struck me (and I would advise anyone that cares about this issue to try to do a ride along) was just how negative their worlds became by virtue of the fact that they were seeing the worst in humanity daily.

(No I’m NOT excusing them I’m rather asking for your solutions to a problem that I saw firsthand.)

I felt like all day every day they dealt with bad people. They were seeing three and four domestic violence incidents a day, robberies, thefts, drugs, deaths, etc. They weren’t interacting with good people as doing so is fundamentally not part of the job. Or if they did it was certainly the exception rather than the rule and probably at a ratio about 1 to 10 or 1 to 15.

As consultants we all agree that a repeated message can change behavior i.e. marketing and advertising. The problem is for many of them that repeated message evolves from some of the people I deal with are bad, many of the people I deal with are bad, almost all people I deal with are bad and it finally becomes all people are bad. And sadly many of the people they were dealing with were POC so they increasingly viewed POC through that lens. I just don’t know how you unravel that but every one of them that I got to know, their cynicism and view of their fellow citizens (especially POC) was awful after about three or four years.

That’s leads to an us versus them mentality which is compounded by the authoritarian nature of what they do. (Someone mentioned the Stanford experiment above....)

Anyway I have no idea how to fix it but if you cannot figure out how to deprogram people and get them to see the best in people as opposed to the worst it is going to be hard.

likesmart

I agree with you. I think we have to get upstream of the problem and look at investing things like universal pre-K, fixing elementary middle school and high school education, job programs internships mentorship etc. I think if you can start people down a different path there will be less people committing crime and that repeated narrative will hopefully change perceptions. As for resolving How to hold police officers accountable when you are dealing with police unions and contributions from said institutions to politicians, I just don’t see how we’ll ever get there from here.

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My first thought is always to thank every divine being imaginable that I live in Canada.

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This was that incident where Police were called when a family was scared of a family member's mental state because she was having a psychological breakdown. The family called in concerns about her having weapons and assaulting them.

Yep, Sounds like the set up for a flagrant murder to me. Y'know, gotta take advantage of every situation.

To be honest, my first thought is always “I’m so glad I’m not black”, then my second thought is pretty much what you said... wish there was more I could do, but what could I possibly do to help? It’s hard to even think of things any of us can do to try and make things better...

likehelpful

Hold people you know accountable to their biases. Do not raise kids with biases. That is a first step.

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I just came from the protest in Minneapolis. Honestly I just feel defeated right now. We elect progressive city leadership, have a police chief who’s a POC and committed to reforms, and still stuff like this happens. It’s frustrating to feel so powerless.

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Police unions and police brotherhood associations don't want to hold their own accountable for their actions. If legislation was passed that forced settlements to be funded by police retirement funds, police would change their behavior and hold their own accountable.

Also the bar needs to be raised with LEA recruitment. I actually know people who took assessment tests and scored exceptionally high to be told "you're too smart to be one of us". So basically allow highly intelligent individuals into police departments. We also need to make sure bigots aren't allowed to enter police academies.

With regards to Minneapolis, the city tried to require all police officers to live in the city neighborhood, but the Republicans in the state passed a law to ban that requirement.

likesmartfunny

It makes me sad. I try to read more about the incidents and especially read opinions of people of color. I do feel a little helpless, and I think being informed is one of the best ways to start helping as an ally. I wish we had more conversations about these topics so everyone could learn.

likesmart

As a black guy here are some recommendations.

1. Call out your friends and relatives over their bias and racism. If your neighbor is complaining about non issues about the black family while but voicing their concern over the white family whose kids are being a nuisance, call them out over their bias. Also go bring that black family a plate of cookies and invite them over for dinner from time to time. You might just gain a new set of good friends for life or find a new tutor or babysitter for your kids.

2. Look within yourself at your own implicit bias.

3. See the cops pulling over someone, who's a person of color, and you think "I'll just mind my business". Don't. Pull over to stop and pull your phone out to record it.

4. Vote for candidates who have policies that are inclusive of everyone.

likehelpful

I'll also add #5: "learn to understand your own white fragility"

It's not easy and it's basically coming to grips with making yourself vulnerable to yourself

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I remember marching for Trayvon Martin in college thinking things would change. What's insane to me is how it feels like we have actually regressed. I follow criminal justice reform pretty closely, and I think the two most effective way for systemic change to be enacted would be 1) via intervention by the Justice Dept in police dept training (which was supposed to happen during the Obama years) and 2) local elections (given how little supervision there is for smaller police depts.) I just do not have a lot of faith in our country right now and I am exhausted by the sadness in mourning police brutality which I imagine is felt 10x by black folks in particular.

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Guys just flag the bs and it’ll get removed. We don’t have to engage the blatant lies.

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I think if white people want to really help they need to start using their privilege as a platform. This is more than feeling sorry for the black person that died and it’s more than thoughts and prayers. Speak up and stand up, you have more power than you think

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Your head is in the sand then @MDA1

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People will always be discriminatory, either by race, gender, religion, or social status. Hate crimes happen all the time, they’re also reported on all the time. It’s just that the stories where a black person is a victim to a white person are the ones more likely to go viral. I think it’s because slavery is a part of America’s history but who knows

I do feel powerless but not in a depressed, lost-all-reason-to-live way, but I feel powerless in that discrimination will always exist and it will
never go away and there’s nothing anyone can do to get rid of it. So I just continue living my life and don’t think about it

I’m not white btw

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you do hear a thing, MDA1. but let’s also not forget the real reason we are hearing about this: there was a video. there is indisputable evidence of a black man being murdered by a cop who has been involved in other killings of minorities.

to your point thought, i do think that this isn’t just evidence of mere racism, but it also begs a larger discussion on use of force by police officers in this country.

D5. Why don’t you think this is a systemic bias?

There is amply proof that unconscious bias is not just tolerated but reinforced by police departments. We should have a zero tolerance policy for this.

likesmart

Have you ordered the book? Have you used google? I’ll share some context but keep doing research. It’ll make you a better person. Truthfully. Having this knowledge for yourself makes you better equipped to have conversations with colleagues, friends, family

The stats out of context don’t do the whole issue justice. It’s this kind of narrative that makes people who are generally indifferent justified in their thoughts and actions or lack there of. The issue isn’t just crime data.

Stop and frisk was enacted in the 90s to enforce regans war on drugs agenda. This tactic was disproportionately used in red zoned neighborhoods where drugs were being dropped off in with an actual goal “CoIntelPro” of putting people of color in jail, as many as possible regardless of being convicted. Precincts became good if they’re numbers were up on the people they put in jail. They got more money based on this. This reinforced behavior despite the fact that drug use was equal in both white and black neighborhoods media and shows like cops purported the perception about blacks and crime. So the narrative continues, black and brown people continue to be red zoned into ghettos, targeted by cops for ease, and put into the system. Once a cop picks up a black person, if they cant afford bail, they sit in jail even if they didnt do the crime. Most people dont want to sit in jail, so overworked prosecutors offer plea deals... plead guilty and you get back to your family, your community. Plead not guilty, sit in jail for a few years while you await trial. Most minorities take the deal which adds a notch to the black crime stat that isn’t actually true. Now this person who has admitted to a crime they didnt commit cant get any housing support, has to flag criminal conviction on job apps and wont get a job, and then they loose right to vote. Then cycle of poverty continues. Meanwhile taxpayers dollars keep going towards jails and welfare programs because we cant seem to understand the maze of a cage we as society literally put people in.

Black and white people use drugs equally. Violent crime is at its lowest in decades. Crime stats do not break out convictions due to plea deals which more often than not are as a result of people who committed no crime, but cant afford bail.

Do. More. Research. Learn. More. Society needs you to.

smart

There is zero evidence that the cop was motivated by race. The same thing happens to white people all the time—the issue is police brutality and reforming their training, not racial discrimination.

likefunny

Eeeek there it goes again Mck1..... crime stats are generally wrong unfortunately. You can make data say whatever you want really. I would encourage you to do more research and learning. Recommend the New Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander. It’s not as simple as police brutality. The system is much broader and impactful (negatively) than what you’re describing. If it were as simple as that one stat you mentioned, fine. Because the impact the entire criminal justice system has disproportionately against poor people, minorities, and especially black minorities, it is useless to look at one stat and make conclusions. Read, learn, have conversations, engage, volunteer. Do more. We all have a stake in humanity being able to live as full of lives as possible

This is all very interesting to me. Do you feel like on a daily basis you are somewhat held accountable for what these individuals do? As in, do you feel it reflects badly on white people in general? I’m from Africa and we get embarrassed when a black person does something stupid and we feel like they it reflects badly on us. Do you feel that level of collective embarrassment for lack of a better word?

likehelpful

A2 to say that there is nothing you can do to rid the world of racism is defeatist and counterproductive. If you’re trying to articulate how wide spread the problem is fine. But please remember how many discriminating atrocities have occurred in history and how much progress has been made. We don’t live in a world where slavery is legal or where the holocaust can be repeated. The basis of these is race. Race is not real. There is no basis for difference on skin color. Literally none. Racism is real. There are countless movements, organizations, people focused on this. Maybe join in and get more informed rather than taking on defeatist attitudes

pretty much the same as when I read about *insert societal ill here*.... I feel sad that humanity can do such things and sometimes feel discouraged about the enormity of the problem. Then I realize that I can only impact my sphere of influence, and that although I don't see my personal mission being associated with fighting it, I can participate in being part of the solution in smaller ways (making sure I cast a well informed vote and tell others where to do research for example. Actually following "if you see something say sonething". Promoting relationships with a diversity of people. etc)

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I quit a hobby that I did for ~20 years over racist comments and actions that became intolerable after the 2016 election. The last exchange was over ‘taking the knee’ during the anthem at football games. After many instances of not taking the bait, I voiced my opinion that protests should be allowed. The white woman told me to go back where I came from. BTW, I am also white.

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What hobby? Can you tell us more about your experience?

likesmart

I feel sad when anyone is killed. However, being from PR, it is definitely bizarre to me in the US that everything is so black and white. Latinos in the US experience a huge amount of racism and discrimination that goes unnoticed largely because some of us are of lighter complexion, so I feel that grouping people together by race does a lot of harm to certain minority groups.

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A1, why is it a competition? Discrimination is wrong period.

While I’m sure racism is a large part of it, I also think it’s a police/American cultural issue. Plenty of white people also get killed by over aggressive cops. American authoritarian culture. A member of my family is in the British army, he felt like the American soldiers in Afghanistan were way more pumped up to shoot and kill people than the Brits. He told me it felt like it was something they wanted to do, almost a burning desire to prove a point. Also likely linked to gun culture and my suspicion that the police force probably aren’t recruiting the brightest people.

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Yeah I’d tend to agree that we have a more militant and aggressive culture than most other nations....especially Europeans and Brits none of whom really did any significant fighting in AFG or IRQ compared to the U.S.


Question: what does ISAF stand for?

I See Americans Fighting....

Disclaimer: Aforementioned does not include Canadians who were known for going outside the wire....and some of the Norwegian special forces guys early on.

I won’t generalize and say that all white people don’t care. Some do, but do they do anything about it, that’s a different question. And there some who don’t - even in this app, where they are too quick to point the finger back “ that is not the whole story, black people make me feel threatened”. Even this CP incident, I saw some posts where they are accusing the guy for “harassing” Amy Cooper. It’s sad but this is the world
We live on. Until it happens to you, it’s easier to shrug it off.

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I usually send my thoughts and prayers that seems to help a lot

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