{ "media_type": "text", "post_content": "I consider myself a gen xer. I feel that in the past, longevity and loyalty to a company was the trend. Now, i see ppl with resumes and they stay for less than a year in a job and change jobs constantly. The younger generation and are so eager to move up the ladder. I wonder if the move up is too fast and is really justified. Or perhaps the younger generation feels a lot more entitled and are more aggressive. Thoughts?", "post_id": "6124f8a6d91723002ac4c395", "reply_count": 145, "vote_count": 37, "bowl_id": "552d1d24dc1c586b09d2d051", "bowl_name": "Consulting", "feed_type": "crowd" }
null

I consider myself a gen xer. I feel that in the past, longevity and loyalty to a company was the trend. Now, i see ppl with resumes and they stay for less than a year in a job and change jobs constantly. The younger generation and are so eager to move up the ladder. I wonder if the move up is too fast and is really justified. Or perhaps the younger generation feels a lot more entitled and are more aggressive. Thoughts?

likefunny
Posting as :
works at
You are currently posting as works at
Highlighted IconHIGHLIGHTED

I too am a GenX-er but my experience has taught me to be a mercenary. The job you are in is always about mutual benefit. If either you or the firm cease to benefit, you either leave or get laid off. Yes, while I am on the payroll, I am loyal and seek to improve the company's lot, but that is also because it will likewise improve mine. In my past I have seen a degrading work ethic were people make frequent and sudden jumps but often mostly after they have worn out the patience of their employer. Be proud of your work and so long as the company rewards you to your liking and the overall benefit is also to your liking, stay. But when you jump, jump to where you can grow not just to jump.

In a lot of industries (including when I was the one doing the hiring) I viewed applicants who frequently jumped after less than 2 years as unlikely to stick around with my firm for 2 years. And if I am to invest in their training and growth, I'd like to reap the benefits (higher bill rates, productivity and quality) even for a short while as a return on the investment in them.

like

Same. I hire now and I know I look for people likely to stick around for 2 years.

like

There are a few things they can do, but it’ll be expensive. Right now companies seem to reward a small number of high potential folks and help them progress quickly but neglect the middle (there’s the bottom performers too but I’m not sure they need to focus on keeping them). The middle probably have a large number of people who could progress quickly but don’t because it’s not built into the model - so they look elsewhere. In some companies (e.g. industry) there are only a certain number of more senior positions so you are limited in how many people you can promote. Realistically for those companies there is only so much you can do for raises too as you can’t have your labour costs go up 10% each year.

Consulting is a little different as we can move larger numbers of people through more quickly (we still have the pyramid problem but there is more room to grow with up or out). I still think we neglect the middle though.

Both cases I think it’s partly by design - it’s cheaper to do this way and harder to quantify the impact of low retention vs. not increasing wages. We’ve also got rid of benefits and job security. Previously a pension and understanding that as long as you perform you will probably have a role was a good incentive to stay. Companies invested more in developing talent than paying signing bonuses and didn’t poach as much and expand and contact their workforces as quickly (probably because there was less focus on micromanaging earnings quarter to quarter)

I have worked 8 years at one place and another 5 here. I’d say quick advancement was one reason I haven’t jumped more but the other was the people. To be honest covid has taken away the people (teams calls and 12 hours a day at a laptop is not the same). We’ve taken away the people and not improved anything else so I think if anything it’ll get worse.

Sorry to be a downer!

likesmart
Recent IconRecent

I was part of a mass layoff 2 days before my wedding by IBM. Literally plane landed and had a voicemail (actually 17 voicemails from colleagues).

I take huge issue with you putting this on the younger generation. Employers have been playing dirty for several decades, and suddenly when employees dont feel loyalty its their fault.

likesmarthelpfuluplifting

@kpmg what if next recession comes and your longevity and loyalty at a company does not save your job? Would be kicking yourself you didn’t take those pay bumps.

Loyalty isn’t shown to employees so why should it be reciprocated to companies? Pensions are gone away with, firms hire externally instead of promoting internally, and pay bumps don’t match the gain from jumping.

Fix that and you’ll see firm loyalty again

likesmarthelpful

Millennial here. Until companies can give raises at the same rate as external companies, loyalty will be discouraged. I got a meager 10% raise for my KPMG promo so I jumped for a 60% raise.

I also saw KPMG lay off employees that had been there over 10+ years. Now, tell me why I should be loyal?

likesmart

When consulting firms lay off the 10+ yr people it means they were dead weight and should have been let go sooner. Bad optics.

like

I’m guilty of this. From my perspective, the consequences of changing jobs frequently have not come to fruition, and seeing external hires getting paid more than homegrown discourages loyalty

likesmarthelpfuluplifting

SM2 — now is the time for an external offer.

like

Maybe this has something to do with it? The top of the pyramid used to do well but once companies figured out how if they worked together (i think they call that benchmarking salaries) they could keep the rank and file groveling for scraps while they took all the profits for themselves at the top, they kept at it. They cut pensions and benefits and let pay stagnate as much as they possibly could. Loyalty would have been sharing profits but that didn’t happen so why would anyone be loyal to these companies? My job shouldn’t be to help partners / C-suite buy their next mansion.

Post Photo
likesmart

A8 - no doubt, point is (1) the numbers generally are waaay off even timeline adjusted and (2) Pay in the 1960s was salary and bonus whereas now it is that plus stock plus other benefits.

The CEO club is a very small one and those that are in it are usually (not always) very special individuals with a very special set of skills (in Liam Neesons voice). The drive, intellect, personality and - frankly - single mindedness are beyond most “workers”.

Companies pay their CEOs to get results - as with all jobs, it’s market driven - if they weren’t worth it, they’d get fired or they’d get paid less. “Worth” being defined as whatever the company decides it is.

Railing against CEO compensation is like complaining that athletes; actors or singers shouldn’t get paid as much - they do because someone is willing to pay them

Same for the workers

like

I think younger generations have watched older generations dedicate their lives to companies only to find themselves stuck in one place, be unfairly laid off, or have pensions squandered by companies. These experience have led to the feeling that you need to fight for yourself to get where you want to go.

likesmart

Agree with all of this. Also, many millennials have experienced this lack of loyalty from employers as well. I and many of my friends who are high performing individuals have received the boot or have been financially taken advantage of due to a company’s poor planning and/or cost saving measures.

Seeing and experiencing giving loyalty and not having it returned or valued is what many people see. I understand that sometimes hard business decisions need to be made (that is totally understandable)…but at the end of the day, a company will do what’s best for the company and I will work really hard, but do what’s best for me.

like

What a century are from? Live in the now! You can only look out for you. Companies will lay you off just to bump their stock price for a quarter. They’ll cut your bonus and fatten the c-suite. There’s so much more to life then the rat race. Do what’s best for you, your values and family because nobody else will. If that means you change jobs at six months, so be it. There is no trophy at the end for the most loyal employee. There is only payment for services rendered.

like

I just went thru new job orientation, just imagine how many previous jobs to fill gives me a headache 🤕

like

You're placing the blame on the wrong side. Companies stopped valuing loyalty decades ago, and instead abuse it. Removal of pensions, lack of raises, no internal promotes, elimination of education programs, layoffs on a heartbeat's notice.

There is literally nothing to be gained from a worker having "loyalty" and a ton to lose. Study after study shows that people who stay at one job for long periods will make substantially less and progress much more slowly than people who seek out opportunities.

likesmart

I’m an elder millennial. My father worked/works at the same job his entire life. He moved up, got progressively better salaries and benefits, and therefore did not have a reason to leave. The organization values him and the loyalty was returned.

Over the last 20 years, however, loyalty has almost complete evaporated from the employer side. You are a number on a spreadsheet. Their goal is to pay you the least amount possible that still keeps you with the company…at least until you’re no longer useful. Employees have adjusted accordingly, bouncing around from company to company because it’s the best and arguably only way to increase their salaries at a market rate.

This shift is entirely the result of hyper capitalism and shareholders satisfaction being the only metric that matters. And I say this as someone who has turned down substantially better offers to stay where I am. I will never bash anyone for trying to maximize their earnings potential throughout their career because it can all evaporate in a second.

likesmarthelpful

Exactly, everything is a market. That includes employee labor. To be fair, lots of companies are doing things to retain employees outside of promo and comp increases but the fact is that if I'm young and have the ability and desire to work 60 hour weeks I want to max out my earnings while i can

like

During the dot com boom, newbs flew up to partner overnight. They were making partner by 30. These partners are often the same ones that are critical of those ambitions junior folks who are popping smoke after a year when they aren’t receiving opportunity.

The only place you see that fast track now is MBB, a meat grinder with opportunity.

likehelpfulfunny

Ah, but how we love our meat grinder. Until we don’t, and we jump to tech at 30% more TC and 30% fewer hours.

like

Why would I stay put for a 2.5% COLA bump when I can leave and get 60%+? Loyalty isn’t rewarded anymore and the market makes that very clear.

I’m a millennial but also been in the workforce for about 15 years. Ive jumped around but am finally settling down or possibly have one more jump in me.

likesmart

As a millennial I see the costs of living even in a medium cost of living city and compare them against the goals I have for my personal life and see that if I’m not aggressive it will be hard to achieve what I’d like. I don’t feel entitled to more but I do feel motivated to at least try to achieve a higher salary to pay for life (e.g., house, kids, students loans) in general.

like

Millennial here. Everytime I have jumped it was because I did the work, exceeded the bar, but the promotion did not materialize. I jumped until I landed where the market said I should be. Former managers now reach out, and I am willing to go back to some, but it will cost them. I am now fairly transparent regarding my expectations and timelines. It has served me well now that my history and experience proves that I am in no way scared of taking these very marketable skills to the market for updated pricing.

likesmart

Pensions don't exist anymore.

Companies don't pay enough to keep people.

like

I have pension Bitcoin!

like

Student loan debt we don't have time to wait for boomers to throw us bread crumbs. Millennial don't have the same loyalty to boomers as gen X because we don't trust them like yall blindly do...why r u giving time and loyalty to a company that will can you without thinking twice about how it will affect you or your family. Don't be naive and rely on old school herd mentality

likesmarthelpfulfunny

I leave because of toxic cultures. No amount of loyalty to a company will make me sacrifice my mental health anymore. Whether it's two months or two years. When it's time to go it's time to go and the younger generation feels more empowered to do so than previous ones. I see this even more with Gen Zers and I fully support it.

likesmart

Millennials are doing the work force a favor by not bending over and taking it from their companies

like

We (Gen X) grew up thinking we were lucky to get hazed, and the only appropriate response to a pay check was to fall in line. Thankfully the younger generations understand that is not the case. Until companies treat employees better and leaders like us understand that team members don’t need to lick our boots, we’ll see a revolving door.

likesmart

TBH I think gen Z (the millennials too, but they’re in their late 30s now) are doing what we Xers never had the numbers to get away with: Demand that our value be recognized and hit the exit when it was not. I graduated into Great Recession 1 (1991) and got my first job at almost 15% below the prior year’s market rates, after almost 2 years trying to land a gig. MBA hiring was almost non-existent at my state school. Way more labor supply than demand. Fast forward to Great Recession #2 (2007) and the boomers lose their retirement savings and need to stay in the workforce 10 years longer. Meanwhile there are hordes of Millennials that can be bought cheap compared to 30-40 yo Xers. So no where to move up and pressure to keep / compete for jobs that again are scarce. Companies that could get away with saving money did so by RIFing Gen X and hiring younger. Now, finally, it’s advantage employee with enough highly qualified Millennials but even more jobs. Are they entitled and aggressive? Hell no. They just see the labor economics for what they are and acting in their own self interest. I would do the same at their age if I could. Xers weren’t loyal, they needed to hang on to scarce jobs and had few upward paths. You go, youngsters. Loyalty stopped being rewarded with the death of pensions in1980 for anyone not in the exec ranks. Work for yourselves.

likesmart

I am not saying what millenials are doing is wrong. I get it and can see it from that perspective. I agree, a COLA bump is not enough to support a family year after year. Just an observation of the times we have lived in vs what we are facing now. I don’t think we can blame companies only though. It is a reflection of the times. Is this the future or can we bring loyalty back? I am an optimist, so I think we are trying and some companies succeed and others don’t.

like

OP we can and we do

Related Posts

Looking to get some advice as I will be getting my masters soon. I currently work in healthcare so I am leaning towards getting an MBA in healthcare management vs an MBA in management. If I was ever to change fields (I.e finance or technology) would companies care that my MBA is in healthcare management or is that usually over looked?

like

Hi can anyone share the quality of work, average salary for data scientist role at Captial One?

like

Hey bosses! I am considering a jump from a career in brand creative to marketing. It would be a director level position as I have had a couple of executive / director level positions as a creative. I would be working at a non-prof - it would be a wonderful opportunity… and a welcomed change.

As I consider this transition, anything I should think about going into this?

like
like

Im preparing for an interview within my department for a lateral move. The position is brand new. Any suggestions for questions I should ask? Or tips for asking for a salary increase.

like

Additional Posts

What visa should I apply for if I’m a US citizen and I want to frequent India for years to come?

Just doing some laundry 😸

Post Photo
likefunnyhelpful

Would five months of review for CFA Level 1 using Schweser review books only during this busy season already be enough? What is the optimal review strategy? (Accounting degree holder and CPA here.)

like

Considering moving to Hoboken. Any words of wisdom/impressions? Single 31M, don’t care about nightlife

like

Any tips for heads down/focused study, especially while working full time? Starting a prep class in November and I want to make the most of it and get the GMAT done!

like

My wife is planning to come to the US on H4, and planning to do her masters. Can I get en education loan for her from the US? (me on H1B, 5 years or credit history and a good credit score ~750).

like

So much sass and shade happening at the AA ticketing counter

like

Has anyone had success with an in-Home laser hair removal? What brands?

like

1. Is Accenture bigger than Deloitte in the federal space?
2. Is Accenture's work in the federal space mostly IT implementations?

like

I hate public accounting so much...does it get any better in private?

likesmartfunny

Me after my 10th round of concepting

Post Photo
likefunny

I never thought I’d have to google dashboard indicator info this much.

like

Im preparing for an interview within my department for a lateral move. The position is brand new. Any suggestions for questions I should ask? Or tips for asking for a salary increase.

like

What exactly does a technical architect do? A recruiter from a company I really admire reached out but I’m worried about career growth

like
like

Is $150k salary (little to no bonus) enough to live comfortably in LA for 1 person and still save $$? Considering relocating from LCOL area. Would like to live on West side as office would be in BH.

funnylike

Hey bosses! I am considering a jump from a career in brand creative to marketing. It would be a director level position as I have had a couple of executive / director level positions as a creative. I would be working at a non-prof - it would be a wonderful opportunity… and a welcomed change.

As I consider this transition, anything I should think about going into this?

like

Hey Fishes,
Currently for Backend/Java developer roles, what tools, frameworks, or skills are in demand or required for roles good companies and pay?
And how do we learn those skills to be eligible for those roles in product based companies?
(1.6 YoE, working on prehistoric Java tech stack, plan to switch soon)
Please help 🥺.

like

Question for the amazing women networker out here: I find that this industry are still fairly male dominated and a lot of guys do like to talk about sports. I specifically remember that a friend told

like

Any opinion on in-house consulting at banks? better than big 4 work? pros/cons?

like

New to Fishbowl?

Download the Fishbowl app to
unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.
Download Fishbowl to see what others are saying
That was just a preview…
Sign Up to see all discussions
  • Discover what it’s like to work at companies from real professionals
  • Get candid advice from people in your field in a safe space
  • Chat and network with other professionals in your field
Sign up in seconds to unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.

Already a user?
Login here

Share

Embed this post

Copy and paste embed code on your site

Preview

Download the Fishbowl app

For account settings, visit Fishbowl on Desktop Browser or

General

Legal