I feel like the bigger the tax practices are getting they are making staff specialize too quickly and they have super narrow skill sets and no clue what the full picture looks like. We just hired a big 4 senior that has NEVER prepared a state return. I can’t even fathom that.

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I’m in fed corp compliance at b4 and we do state returns for smaller entities. If that b4 senior never prepared a state return, that means he was working on federal only for huge 100+ consolidated entities returns.

I bet that B4 employee can run circles around you when it comes to consolidated returns and he’s done forms you’ve probably never heard of.

Just train them. Won’t be hard to pick up.

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Your response makes no sense. He worked on 3 clients because those 3 clients are most likely large public entities with 100 subs underneath them. It takes months to prepare those returns. Don’t even know what you mean by ‘2 week boot camp’. Was he in B4 for 2 weeks and left?

A lot these large public entities have UTPs so why are you assuming he’s unfamiliar with that concept ? Also, the fact you think that the ‘outsourcing’ team is the one working on compliance of that size just shows you have no idea what the B4 actually do.

Do me a favor. Go to LinkedIn and look at tax directors from your favorite Fortune 500 companies and see how many of them are from B4 and how many are not and let me know the results

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Big 4 here, actively stay away from all state work as much as possible. We have SALT teams for a reason, only on my small clients do we do state work and I despise every second of it.

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I mean I get it. States are a pain in the ass. My point is not just states it’s the well roundedness. We also just have less resources as expected so specialist groups here don’t generally do compliance. They handle consulting projects, and they topside review things for us if we come across something juicy.

When I first started the only reason I ended up in ASC740/corp is in my first 6 months I got to try a couple corps, went on some provision audits, did a couple hedge fund returns and even 3 Expat returns. Scheduled that way intentionally so I was aware of different disciplines and moved forward with the one I liked most.

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Well I am a Tax Partner and have never prepared a return. I am in a speciality area, but still. State returns? That’s your table stakes?

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Typical Partner care and planning, just speak it into being without the first clue as to how to do it.

funny

In my experience, that’s been the case with nearly every big 4 candidate that I’ve been involved with interviewing. We’ve rarely made offers to big 4 candidates, and of the ones we have offered, only one in my experience has performed well.

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Well I wouldn’t say he’s bad cause he’s not. He’s just green in a lot of areas but he’s a smart person just no one has taught him this stuff. Just a steeper learning curve for him than I thought we were going to be dealing with.

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Not "getting" there, they've been that way for a while. And unless the individual has bounced around a little or has additional other experience they usually aren't as technically well rounded as someone from a smaller firm.

It gets worse the longer they're there as well. Ive worked with enough Senior Managers and Directors that couldn't function at all at a small firm.

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Considering the way things have been going, I’m sure your firm may be desperate for people. I’m also sure that this kid probably has a brain and just because nobody has ever taught him what you specifically need, I’d like to think he’d pick it up just fine. I don’t know why people complain when they have to teach someone something, god forbid. Not his fault. Just do it.

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Did you read the whole thread? I defended his intelligence and I think it’s unfortunate the the learning curve for him is as steep as it is. Product of his environment

Came from B4 to BDO in a specialty practice and I’m astounded at what my peers here don’t know. Basic concepts I expected of seniors at EY haven’t been mastered by the senior managers I’ve worked with here. The errors I’ve found in returns are downright negligent.

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Yikes! You even went all caps. I’ve no idea what kind of work you do so don’t take it personally.

I’m not going to give specifics of my group because it’s exceptionally small, but it’s a subset of core tax so these are the people who you’re claiming are competent and literate in multiple disciplines, and I can attest that many of them are not. I don’t think there is a single project that I’ve picked up that didn’t have basic, and I’m talking first year staff basic, errors. And I would guess upwards of half of them had errors I’d qualify as negligent. I’m dumbfounded that partners signed off on these filings.

EY does have a diversified staff group program so staff get to try all sorts of stuff. Only problem is there are sooo many areas in tax that they might not ever need/want to try state tax work or international tax. It doesn’t mean they couldn’t figure it out.

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I did, and I get what you’re saying. But it is what it is. It’s an unforeseen hurdle that you both will overcome as a team, and I’m sure once you invest the time in him you’ll get get a much higher return in the long run. Stay patient and kind, my friend.

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