I have a meeting with my client and his attorney.
The attorney is recommending a will that pours over into a trust. Why not just a revocable trust with a will?

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Net worth?

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That’s essentially what the attorney is recommending. A pour over will provides language that essentially says, “if there’s anything we forgot to include in the trust property schedule, it is included by default as property of the trust."

smart

Net worth 3 mm

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Because the attorney gets paid on the probate. Get a second opinion

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Wait a minute. I’m basically your client.
Same age. Comparable net worth with kids under age 18.

I have a simple will and testamentary trust written into it. At my death, my wife gets it all (and vice versa). At both of our deaths, the trust is created and funded.

For my family this is perfect. It gives us the most flexibility now and it doesn’t cost $2k-$3k now to draft a revocable family trust document.

For each their own, but be careful about standing up to a client’s trusted attorney. I can speak from experience 😟

Just be agreeable to the clients’ needs. I don’t see anything wrong at all with this setup for now. Once they hit age 70...then the trust is likely the better plan as it will list successor trustees and provide legal transition as they age and maybe get to a point where don’t want to handle their own affairs.

smart

I agree FA 4. I have a similar set up for now. Will be upgrading down the road.

Sure. But that’s the point...the trust is created after the second parent (spouse) is dead.
So while either are alive, it’s business as usual.

Again, some people like having the revocable living trust (with pour over will) so it’s all on autopilot. Others (like me) want minimal disruption and hassle in retitling property and assets. That way when we get old and gray, we can adjust to whatever estate tax laws are out there and legally take advantage at that point.

More than likely, my family has one probate to deal with...and it’s either after my wife or I die many years down the road

helpful

Well I had the meeting with the attorney and client. The strategy makes sense for the client, a will and pour over trust. The clients are young, this way they don't have to retitle assets.

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Fa2 thank you, I understand the "pour over" provision.
I don't understand the "why" of using a testamentary trust. My client is 50 married, teenage kids and 3 mm estate. Does anyone have an answer on this?

So he gets to double dip. Charge today for a will and tomorrow charge the estate for probate fees. I am not a cynic and believe people are mostly good.

Agree with FA3. Sounds pretty shady

Very helpful. I will post what I find after Friday's meeting. I really appreciate your help.

Unlike living trusts, testamentary trusts do not avoid probate. A testamentary trust created through a will must go through probate before the trust is created. The executor will probate the will and as part of the probate process, he or she will create the trust..... from NOLO

Testamentary trusts are Mickey Mouse and should be avoided if possible. I could see where costs can be a huge factor but pony up the extra grand and do it right. Too much potential for things to go wrong and drag the estate process out. Not to mention, that if you try to fund the testamentary trusts with beneficiary arrangements you could run into a problem. I would agree with FA4 but I would still get a second opinion or have the attorney explain why it makes sense.

Back to the original question of a pour over will... all trust planning includes a pour over will but that will is there to catch assets that weren’t originally titled or left to the trust. It’s a backstop and should not be the primary vehicle to fund a trust.

Great thread.... here's another wrinkle there is a million in qualified accounts, kids are 10 and 13. The plot thickens maybe!

No. Not at all. Still straightforward.

If husband dies 1st, wife gets it all and can do what she wants (and vice versa). If both die at same time or after the last of them is gone...then trust is funded and the kids are taken care of by the trustee (qualified and non qualified accounts alike plus insurance proceeds).

Agreed

If no trust how does this protect the kids if mom remarries and re-titles assets with new hubby as joint tenancy? Without the trust, mom just gave away half the family assets to new hubby.

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