I just can’t in good conscience recommend Black people to work in Consulting unless it’s a 2, max 3 year stepping stone. Anyone else?

likesmart
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This is silly and bad advice. If anybody needs jobs that are paying double and triple the median household income , it is black people. You can't expect progress to be immediate or happen tomorrow. There are headaches and growing pains that come along with progress.

It irritates me when we complain about our lack of representation but then engage in activities that further alienates out own people and/or pushes interested blacks away. Please don't be that person.

likeuplifting

This platform does not give anyone tangible resources. It provides some semi-helpful, infrequent advice and some commiserations for the trauma we endure. This platform is not a sponsor, this platform does not drive equity or hold harmful leaders accountable for their behaviors. Imagine more for yourself and for your people.

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OP, the real ones know what you are communicating on this post. Everyone has different experiences. Most of the black people I know have extremely challenging experiences in Big 4, but there are others who are able to succeed. There are also people who drink the kool-aid heavily--aka all skinfolk aint kinfolk. A lot of success in consulting has to do with right place, right time, and having suitable allys paired knowing how brag about yourself + kissing ass. There are a lot of moving parts. Assimilation at its finest.

I agree with you with one caveat. If you choose to come, come to learn game and bounce. Consulting really is a facade that doesnt provide as much value as practitioners like to think. A lot of it is "bitchwork" as one of my white colleagues described it. On the flipside if you are comfortable with that environment, do you. I know its not my long term plan. I am so over all of the fluff and and the rest of the bs that comes with Big 4 culture.

likesmartuplifting

Thank you for being real and I agree, it’s about learning the fluff and bullshittery and it can help you develop a high motor on execution, but you don’t walk away with a lot of “expertise” IMO.

likeuplifting
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I’ve been doing this for 14 years. If we don’t invite others in, how do you propose we get the change we seek

Besides I’ve seen all races flame out in this industry.

likehelpful

Yes and yes.

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Ummm, how else are black people going to be the norm in corporate America? I think we need more young people to join the ranks.

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Recruitment, HR, Performance Management, Training...

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I don't think it's necessary to dissuade anyone from pursuing a career in consulting, but you should certainly be honest about your experience and your views on this line of work. People need to make their own decisions with all the information available to them, and the best thing you can do is help them go into it with their eyes wide open.

Sometimes the stars align and it works out for some folks.

likehelpful

I agree with this. Again, I wasn’t saying I don’t recommend it period, get the bag. But I don’t recommend it as a place to build any long term career success. I think if done strategically can open a lot of doors in industry or the startup space.

This environment is toxic for everyone tbh. I’m glad to be alongside my peers of any other race, shaping the business world and getting paid WAY TOO MUCH MONEY. I will gladly and humbly take the money to build wealth for my family and generations after me. We’ve got a lot of catching up to do and I’m glad to have a seat at the table.

likesmart

Lol.

likehelpfulfunny

I agree. This has been my thoughts all along. After seeing this black PPMD almost break out crying on one of our calls the other day, saying during her 15+ years career, that she felt like a tiger at a zoo, I was like yea...this isnt the life.

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Where did I say anything about giving up?

I do the exact opposite. I’ll look out to the Nth degree for black people. And if you went to an HBCU, I really got you. Tell you the good, bad and ugly and show you who to align with to work the system.

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Also, none of what I said in my OP stated I don’t look out for Black ppl... the lack of reading and projection here is WILD.

likesmart

There's not a single person I've recommended coming here beyond just that (a stepping stone).

likesmart

Thank you for being honest lol

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I think even putting aside the personal racism one experiences, the moral and ethical implications of the work that consultancies do certainly make it difficult. Talking about value creation can obscure the human impact and dehumanize employees, consumers, spouses, friends, the self. Right sizing a company or optimizing marketing for a fortune 50 are not value neutral. It is the black or brown woman who is in the first round of layoffs and it is the black family that has to live in a food desert, because local grocers can't compete on price and marketing.
So as a person who is aware of inequality, it creates cognitive dissonance to work in an industry focused on serving the owners of capital and utilizing, optimizing or whatever euphemism one likes to use, those who don't have it, disproportionately black people. This is also the reason why consulting will never fundamentally change / welcoming to minorities. It is a delusion to think that just getting a few more folks into consulting will buy us a seat at the table or create any meaningful change, while black households wealth has returned to 1950s levels.

likesmart

So factual. Like I wrote before. All skinfolk aint kinfolk. Ive ran across a lot of us in Consulting who do not care about these issues. They are only concerned about working their way up the ladder. Interesting enough, these are some of the same people who were all in their feelings when all hell broke out a few weeks ago and their counterparts didnt acknowledge their struggle in the office--looking for compassion. Which surprised me because I thought you already understood that these people dont care about you as a person. Why was this so shocking?

likeupliftingsmart

I think it does more harm not to invite black folks to consulting. The money and experiences are great and really do set folks up for success. And yes, I know there’s tons of racism and it’s tough, but we have to fight together

likesmart

Many people skim and scan so they don’t read for comprehension.

likesmart

Again, i see consulting as an MBA you get paid for. It’s a launchpad into something else, it isn’t something that is built for us to be in long-term, period. I have seen SEASONED consultants who look like us break down in tears from the years of micro and macro aggressions. Yes, Corporate America is toxic as a whole but this is *the* most toxic place IMO. The idea that I wouldn’t recommend it as a 10+ year plus career is not unreasonable.

likeuplifting

Some of y’all are acting like I said no one should be in consulting. I said it’s a stepping stone. You know there are less emotionally, mentally and physically (travel) laborious and yet bigger bags in industry right? Everything isn’t a binary. Read what I’m saying before you react.

likeuplifting

I’d just like to say that anyone who would hear this advice from OP and not validate, verify, and make their own judgment call probably doesn’t belong in consulting anyway.

Does that go without saying?

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Exactly. Follow your conscience.

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I came in knowing it’s a 2-3yr stepping stone 😁 sure some will slip upstream and climb the ladder but nah I want to enjoy the ride. Feels like demons nipping at your heels all the time in consulting

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That is a great way to put it!

likesmart

I have seen block people thrive in consulting with a long term tenure
Yes we could be at a disadvantage during crunch period ( where there are slim pickings from staffing perspective). It is so because we don’t have our representatives as part of the decision makers

If you have someone who is motivated, willing to work hard, does not have the tendency to user the race card when in a crunch, willing to network, that person will be ok

Another area is independent consulting. Our guys are doing there very well as they are not subject to the politics of the institution consulting

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SSD I was with you until I saw “the race card”. I must ask - are you Black?

That’s the smart thing to do. This is a toxic environment for everyone, specially Black folk. Narratives about “bringing more of us in here” miss the violent aspect of this work on our persons.

It’s an amazing experience to teach one about the corporate environment quickly (specially for the certifications) but to stay? No ma’am. Get what you want to get and gtfoh as soon as possible.

likesmart

Agreed. Reading this I realize many Black folks are used to be abused to the point they think it’s honorable or some measure of intelligence. Sad tbh.

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Why? I love what I do

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I understand OP’s rationale, but then if you pushed the logic further you’d reach the conclusion that black folks shouldn’t work anywhere. There are definitely challenges in consulting, but it’s not like other industries are significantly better for us...

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I didn’t say not to work in consulting. Read what I actually said.

PwC OP, I see what you’re saying. Consulting is a hostile place for Black people. I’m not sure I’d feel comfortable recommending it to others - at least not without painting an honest picture for them and arming them with serious strategies and tactics.

Can you share what your plans are for your career moving forward? Genuinely curious.

Also, can you share about some of your recent experiences? I’ve had some zingers I can talk about but I don’t want to hijack your thread.

likehelpful

So, my FIRST Deloitte experience was getting kicked off a project because the client did not want a BW (me) leading the D team. This is a team I staffed and cared for - including subs. I interviewed, wooed, and convinced people to come work on this team while delivering on the work stream.

Being new to D, this was a big deal and a testament to my ability to influence. Getting TS/SCI people is no small feat. I also got indoc down to 8 DAYS by forming solid relationships with the military security folks. It used to take double digit WEEKS.

A colleague (WM) who was leading another, adjacent team was responsible for the indoc. Not sure if he viewed the way the military security people took to me and took care of my folks as a slap in the face, but he began undermining me with the client. The client was largely made up of “men’s men”. He formed a close relationship with them via man centric jokes and locker room type convos. I was left out. He made no attempt to include me as we should be doing if we are “one D team.” He capitalized on it. He took long private walks with one of the clients and talked shit about D people - especially me- instead of trying to resolve things.

Meanwhile one of the male leads who had a reputation for harassing dark skinned women honed in on me. They said he didn’t understand why it was wrong because he’s from Mexico. Then they said they didn’t want to hear about it anymore unless I was making an official complaint.

When I raised these issues I was kicked off.

After I was kicked off the project, my white male SM joked and said “I guess we need to put a white guy in front of him. Har har har”. Meanwhile my colleague snagged a gs 14 role in the same realm as our client. What a coincidence.

They put a Blonde woman in my place. During a project turn over session, the blond woman let me know she doesn’t “understand unconscious bias nor believes it exists.” She said that when she sees sexism, she “stamps it out.”

I later found out that the man who had a history of harassing dark skinned women and who “doesn’t know better because he’s from Mexico” turned his sights on a GS 14 BW who put a lengthy complaint in writing and got him removed from his job. But not before he got me kicked off the project.

I was placed on another part of the same project a few days later. No hit to my utilization. Yay!

But...On that project, a BW used member(s) of the client team to remove the then on site lead (an Asian man) and then me when I became the lead. She formed a close bond with a toxic and jealous GS 14 government nasty and went to town on the team. She attacked everyone. Made statements that the D team members were “not smart enough” to be at D and she was hoping the team would fail.

My white male SM, when announcing I was the lead stated “She is JUST here to help. You can still come to me.” Discovered later that when the Asian man was the lead, white dude told people that the Asian man “isn’t really in charge.” This is why the BW decided to fight everything the Asian man asked her to do when he was the lead and anything I asked her to do when I was the lead. SM undermined us from jump. The BW even admitted to me she was deliberately making things difficult for the Asian man! She said “I want him to feel uncomfortable when he talks to me.” WTF.

This situation was stressful for him. He took a sabbatical to complete an education goal but I think that if the project wasn’t like that, he could have been ok delivering on the project and competing his goal.

Leadership eventually “tried” to stop her but by the time they caught on, the client made it clear that any attempt to halt her behavior or interfere with her close relationship with that gs 14 would endanger the contract. The SM tried to change her work stream to separate her from her gs 14 government nasty, she called in the next day, and then the day after, the SM was no longer allowed on the client site. The MD now has to do site visits and fill the SMs shoes.

This BW knew that the Asian man and I were uniquely vulnerable in ways that a white leader would not be. Because the original lead was Asian, it was easy to paint him as a terrible leader. Because I’m a BW, painting me as too aggressive etc. was easy. She simply played to the white stereotypes of each of the leads to undermine and remove us.

When they brought in another BW to lead, this BW quit the firm. She didn’t even last a year, but left so much destruction in her wake.

Meanwhile - the Asian man and I got shitty Year End ratings and have to dig our way out of that this year.

How’s that?

uplifting

I only recommend my Black colleagues after having a conversation. This conversation is me telling them that this field is a great stepping stone for many of us and an awesome way to gain capital quickly. However it’s not a long term career for most and that to survive more than 2 years will mean to constantly deal with racism and micro aggressions.

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Same C2

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I can understand why you might feel that way. I am about to hit 2 years which was my planed exit point. Let’s see if I change my mind.

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