I keep getting told that asking for 38-40k in London for a midweight copywriting role is too much. I have four years of agency experience. Is this true or is it recruiters being recruiters?

Posting as :
works at
You are currently posting as works at

Wow, there goes my desire to work abroad someday. That's horrendous.

like

I understand that you have all the skills of a mid-weight writer. I agree. You might be even better than some seniors. But as with any market, you are worth exactly as much as someone is willing to pay you. So, technically, you are not selling yourself short unless several companies are offering you a job right now and you’ve decided to take the lowest offer at the shittiest agency. You wrote that you are having trouble finding the opportunities. That’s because this market is oversaturated with incredibly talented and skilled people who are ready to work for peanuts just to get their foot in the door. You won a local Young Lions competition. Almost 50 other mid-weight creatives in London won a real Cannes Lion this year. They are all competing with you for jobs. Some Designers with 7+ years of experience are going to portfolio schools and starting as interns — just to get into a good agency as junior art directors. Check the portfolios of this year’s SCA students. Half of their projects are executed at the level of a good mid weight team. They will be coming to the same agencies you want to be at as juniors and getting paid 20K. In a market this overcrowded, it’s not about your skills. It’s about your track-record (How strong is your book? How many awards have you won? How often have you been winning them?), your PR value (Can your name generate a headline? Can your current agency’s name generate a headline? “Droga5 poaches a team from W+K” has more chances to be on the front page of Campaign than: “Droga5 hires a copywriter from Brunswick Group”), your diversity value: “Two Iraqi female creatives join Adam&Eve” sounds better than: “Dave B. and Dave K. join Adam & Eve. Again.”). You have one strong thing going: “2018 UK Young Lions Winner.” This should open some doors for you this year if you are willing to label yourself as an eager young creative. They’ll hire you based on potential. If you want to be hired based on experience — you’ll have to compete with other experienced mid-weights teams. And there’re fifty Cannes Lions winners among them — only from this year. Next year there will be another Young Lions UK team of winners and you will become one of many past-winners. Use it fast and get out of that sad place you’re at now. Money will come. Unless you have to support a dependent, it’s not the point of your career money should be a priority.

like

Well it seems lower but when you factor in the prices here it’s actually a pretty liveable wage. Especially since I came from Canada and the Pound is 2x the Canadian dollar.

like

I think I’ve seen your CV. I remember I liked your Young Lions idea a lot and googled you but couldn’t find your book. You are obviously talented and your writing is good but if I remember correctly, you’ve spent two of those four years as a PR intern and SM coordinator. It’s useful but it doesn’t really count. In my book someone with your CV would be a promising junior, not a mid-weight. You can probably get 40K somewhere but that place will be as dull as where you are now. Your number one priority should be to get a job at a decent agency in the next 6 months, those Young Lions wins don’t last. If a good agency offers you 30K, negotiate, ask for 35K, they’ll give you 32K and that will be a fair salary.

like

London is a tough city as a junior-ish creative.

You could always try to go abroad to build your book, there are plenty of agencies in Europe where being a native English writer is an advantage. Might even get you on the plum briefs and help with winning awards

like

What’s the tax situation like in the UK? 38-40k isn’t much in the US after take home at your level but curious if tax and benefits (eg healthcare) plays into it.

like

Well the UK typically pays much less but I thought considering I’ve been in agency for a while I could easily ask for that much as entry level pays around 28k

smart

Midweight creative salaries vary wildly depending on their book and where they have worked. If you have a strong book and a few gongs you could hold out. If not, listen to the market. If you’re hearing it from more than one recruiter I’d be inclined to assume they’d know.

like

For four years in, it is high-ish. Particularly if you are looking at moving to a more creative agency. Mid 30s feels more accurate - but there are always areas that can be negotiated - eg salary review at 6 months with pre agreed increase etc.

like

London pays 💩 salaries in advertising!!! A London Account Director makes as much as an NYC account exec. on average

like

@creative director 1 Could I ask where you saw my CV? I would be willing to take a pay cut to do the work I want but I’m having trouble finding those opportunities. I have to disagree that I’m a promising junior as I’ve been writing for brands for four years regardless of my actual title and I manage junior writers currently, noting a distinct difference between their skill level and my own.

like

Thanks for the advice though I just hate the idea of selling myself short, especially since I’m confident in my abilities.

like

I agree with you. It sucks and it’s disappointing. None of us should sell our talents cheap. Moreover, every single ECD I know wants to be a good person who pays every creative what they deserve. And then these ECDs are given 1,5M to hire 40 people they need to provide the work for the clients who bring 300M in billings. And that’s how you get an average salary of 23K in creative departments.

like

You are good at what you do. Go get the best job you can.

like

Applying for live roles is almost useless. Recruiters are probably your best bet. Also, LinkedIn messages are not a bad way to reach a person who can hire you. Just don’t be creepy and don’t offer to meet for a coffee in the first message — wait for them to invite you. Weirdly it makes more sense to message ECDs and CCOs directly, CDs are often too busy and they don’t really have any real hiring power, London departments are not that big. Make sure your book is bulletproof. Search for the books of the best people who already work where you want to work and make yours look like theirs.

like

I'm on 45k and have 4 years experience...

like

That’s ridiculous. However, salaries are smaller overseas but not that bad. Might be a smaller independent shop.

@Director 1 taxes are around 20% and the benefits are pretty standard

I used to make 55 as a midlevel in london, but that was considered pretty high

Depends on your book, really. What have you achieved in the four years? Our midweight copywriters earn around 45K-50K (pounds) but they all have at least a couple of D&AD pencils.

Related Posts

I spent two years freelancing and landed my first full time position in April! I'm grateful and super excited, and now that I've achieved this goal I'm wondering what actions or habits I need to take at work to put my self in a position to eventually be promoted to senior engineer or possibly into a management or principal role down the line? Any advice, resources or critiques are appreciated!

like

Legal Department Rankings

As counsel roles become more prevalent, I think more transparency and rankings (similar to biglaw) would be helpful. For example, I’m seeing comp all over the place and it doesn’t always make sense.

What are some thoughts on how to rank legal depts? What would be the metrics?

Here are some thoughts on metrics: compensation, culture, retention, promotion frequency, outside counsel use

likehelpful

I'm halfway through a contract position and enjoying it, and would like to transfer to full-time, but I worry about the 90-day gap in employment and that I wouldn't be able to find the same position remotely with this company. (have finance probs I won't delve into now.) Not sure how to a) tell my manager that I want to transfer to FTE but do not want to move or b) how/when to figure out my next move. Anyone willing to DM/maybe give some advice?

like

Anyone interested in doing the accounting for a small under 15 people company? Salary is about 90K with benefits. You are the only accounting person so you can do you and be flexible work like balacr

like

Hi All,

I am looking for a referral for the company KOHO in Ontario, Canada. I am a HR professionals with 3 years of experience - 2 years in Recruitment and 1 year in Operations. I am a recent graduate from Durham College, completed my Human Resources Management post-graduation certificate. I am available and eligible to start working full-time, immediately. Any help would be appreciated!

like

Hi Fishes, I recently joined NielsenIQ on 13th and was offered with 2 lakhs of joining bonus. The first month's salary got credited yesterday but there's no Joining Bonus. So I wanted to know if you joined the same company or a different one, when did you receive it ?

Nielsen Tata Consultancy Infosys Deloitte Accenture Wipro IBM

like

I have an in-person interview for an entry-level digital marketing role at an agency soon. It’s the final interview, and I’ll be meeting with the marketing manager + a couple others in the team. How can I prepare? and what sort of questions should I bring with me?

Appreciate any help!

like

Hey! I work at a healthcare start up and I earn $95k an year as a Software Engineer II based out on Austin, TX. Recently I interviewed with Visa, Austin and got an offer for the Senior Software Engineer role with base - $125k and a sign on bonus - $10k which totals to $135k overall comp. When I tried negotiating the base salary they said that the comp team isn’t budging on it due to team metrics and my experience (2.5 years as SDE). Is this a good offer to take?

like

Anyone know who designed/animated/produced the opening creds for Dark Tourism on Netflix?

Just got an offer to become a project manager. Initial pay as a jr. Project Manager was 70k, but I’ve basically been doing a project manager job since i started a year ago. What should i be looking for what salary range? I’m in texas

like
like

MBA hire into Microsoft MCAPS, 126k base 85k stock 50k bonus standard package for all interns in this org, good deal?

like

Any connections here from SAP Bangalore? Looking for referrals to apply for a position.

like

I’ve been working in customer service for over a decade. The past 3 years have burnt me out and I am having a hard time finding something I can pivot to that will pay enough. I’ve always moved up and been in a position of leadership and training, but I feel as if I have gone as far up as I can where I am at. Does anyone have any suggestions on jobs or industries that I could move to?

like

Hi, in the offer letter they have mentioned relocation benefits 1.5L . Will they give the whole amount or we need to reimburse based on the bills?

like

Hi Fishes, i am currently looking for a job change. My current role and responsibilities are as follows:
Role : Technology analyst
Technology : Tableau desktop, Tableau server, Tableau prep, Advance SQL, Python
Development methodologies: Agile, waterfall
Certification: SQL intermediate and advance (hackerrank), python basic and intermediate ( hackerrank), currently preparing for alteryx and tableau data analyst certifications
Work experience : 5 Years
Any referrals will be highly appreciated.

like

Hi I was looking referral for Kaiser permanante , blue cross blue shield of California, providence hospital, cedar Sinai or dignity health hospital. Please DM if any leads

like

Looking for ServiceNow Developer. Remote position and min 4 years experience, 1 year into HR module. 1 year contract and 30 days notice can work. If you have any friends to refer we have some amazing refferal system aswell. Call on 7990477483

How much does Wellsfargo offer for a candidate with 7 YOE for a financial consultant position?

like

More Posts

Are there any cults related to the tech industry, or that tech titans are involved in? I have a friend and she seems to sort of be in something, but it's apparently a "tech group". Anyone leave one of these or know of them?

like

In Citi Bank, Pune Senior Business Analyst is C11 or C12?Citi

like

Hello Fishes,
Thinking of applying to airbus
What is the approx package for a person with 4 to 6 YOE?
I come from mechanical background. Does Airbus consider that?

like

Anyone know much about the McKinsey data science test? Reddit says the R portion is package specific, anyone familiar with which packages these might be? Or is it all base R? Thanks folks

like

Thoughts on DDB Chicago, more specifically the Army account?

How do you make sure you are keeping the brand voice consistent?

like

Hello Fishes,
Hope everyone is doing well!

I'm currently looking for a job change, having a total experience of 10 years in Motion Graphics, 2D Animation, Video Editing & Graphic Design. I'm working as an Assistant Design Managar at my current organization.

Can anyone help me guide about the roles at Gartner which suits my profile. Also it will be a great help if you can refer me too.

What is the expected salary I should expect from Cognizant?
YOE:9 years
Techstack: .net core
.net Developer
Cognizant

like

Just got a job offer in IB starting in September in Canary Wharf, any recommendations on whereabout to live (I want to avoid Canary Wharf area)

like

Currently, onboarding at HCL is conducted offline or remote(online) ?

like

Any book recommendations that have helped you control your anxiety or panic attacks? Surfing the web and can’t find a consistent one that’s “the best”

like

Who has decided to voluntarily leave a toxic workplace without a backup plan? If you did, how long did your job search take after the fact? Do you have any helpful suggestions or motivation to make that leap of faith?

like

Hi Sharks,
Need some inputs. Have 3.9 years of Experience as an SAP ABAP Certified Consultant. Looking for change.
How much package should i ask to recruiters? How much will i get in current market?
CCTC : 6.7

like

Hi all! Just got an offer from EY cyber security data protection and privacy practice. Can folks tell me if you really do only work on one engagement? Any pros/cons about the group. Thanks!

like
like

Does killing yourself working really make a difference in layoffs?

like

Can I do skill switch in TCS?

like

What would you qualify as differences between different levels of strategy leaders? Between director, group director and VP - what are the expectations, value and responsibilities that define progression between these roles?

Asking for a friend.

like

On and off plantar fasciitis for a year. Any success stories?

like

Is a hardcopy photo album required during the interview? Or are they usually cool with electronic version? My wife and I didn't get ours printed.

like

Additional Posts in Salaries in Advertising & Marketing

Year to Date I made $60k including overtime. How much should I expect to get with my promotion to Project Manager? Base salary + 10%? I have 3 years experience in the industry in NY, NY

What's the range an ACD makes in LA?

How much does a digital account management director with 10-15 years agency/publisher experience make in NYC?

Just made the jump from 38k to 67k. Graduated in May. Get in, get the name on the resume, and get out

like

Salary range for senior art director in-house? In NYC

Everyone asks about NYC or LA, but how much should a senior writer (5 yrs experience) ask for at a large agency in a smaller city like Atlanta?

likehelpful

22, NY Social Strategist, 60k

How much is the salary range for an account supervisor role at a large agency in New York City?

like