The best possible answer is just to move somewhere else. I don’t know where you live, but there are so many affordable nice places to live in this country.
I feel you on this. I was in a similar position years ago. Find a new job with a pay bump (I went from 52k to 75k in 2014). If your pay doesn’t steadily increase keep finding new jobs. After 8 years I now make around $160k. Just bought my first house last year! Unlike a lot of people on this app, I don’t have family money, investment properties, etc. Single income, never married. I cant afford to max out my 401k but I’m ok with how its doing. I have a very small amount of money invested, and still don’t have a six month emergency fund. It’s hard, but it gets better!!
I make a very similar amount to you, have similar stated expenses, but am the sole bread winner, and have four kids. Our kids participate in several activities. I also don't have family money, but we are very frugal. Our home is quite nice, and in a nice area. Either, there is some expense that you're not considering or something crazy is happening. 160k year should be bringing you around 11,000 month after tax.
There are 16 million empty habitable units in the United States. There are 33 empty habitable homes for every counted homeless person in the United States.
I am a married, college educated mother in my late thirties.
And most of these comments don’t pass the vibe check.
If I had a bingo card for the common arguments that come up when people bring up the housing situation in this country, this thread alone would give me at least two BINGO!
It also strikes me as so funny how everyone has solutions like they know.
I have moved 2.5k miles to avoid homelessness, in 2019. Guess what I got for wages where I landed? $15/hr for skilled desk work. And far fewer job opportunities. Saying I should move supposes there is greener grass elsewhere. It’s been my experience that there isn’t. Also, what a heartless suggestion. A person should be willing to give up their families, social connections, and lives in the vain search for stability?
Also, when I say I can’t find housing, I’m not saying I can’t find a suburban McMansion. I’m saying I CANNOT FIND A TWO BEDROOM SLUM APARTMENT TO RENT. There is a chasm between what is affordable and what is available. And again, THERE ARE SIXTEEN MILLION HABITABLE HOMES STANDING EMPTY.
Sincerely, all of you simping for this system because you haven’t been crushed under the wheel yet are in for a rude awakening. At some point, you’ll stand to lose it all. And when you rant about your plights, you’ll be met with these same phrases you supplied to someone struggling.
Your problem is the problem of the majority of the middle and working class, and the obliviously facile responses displayed here lay bare the out-of-touch opinions of those who continue to live comfortably.
Their day is coming - the middle class is shrinking as the cost to live the “american dream” continues to outpace the average American’s earnings. Soon we will all be reduced to debt-slaves, little more than serfs toiling away all day to shave off tiny slivers of our debt to the mega-rich and multinational corporations hoovering up the affordable housing and driving rent prices ever skyward.
The answer? It very well may come down to gallows and guillotines.
But for now, look on the bright side, at least you’re individually earning almost as much as the median household income in this country… and on one salary no less!
Some of these comments, man. It’s really easy to tell someone to get a better job if they’re only making $X a year but then don’t complain when there’s no one who wants to work those jobs.
Who here is complaining "no one wants to work those jobs." I haven't seen a single comment in this thread stating as much. Speaking for myself, I think it's great some jobs are currently unfillable due to the disparity of mental/physical toil they require and the wages they pay.
Love how most of the responses are from finance, senior, executives that probably have NEVER had a 53k job. This country is just ridiculous for the amount of people that are so fast to criticize and judge without even having some compassion or support for others. A one bedroom apartment in NYC is from 3,700 to 5100, that’s just not sustainable is just not okay when people aren’t even making close to that much money a month. I really feel bad for people trying to live in the city right now, and nd for those saying yeah move out or find another job in something else. That’s not the point.
While I agree with the sentiment, the delivery is poor. You cannot have it all. I made 34K out of college, worked weekends serving tables and moved to find better opportunities and moved again to find more. And that was in 2008 when the economy was in the tank. Just anecdotal but cmon the levers of affordability are what they are. Location/cost living vs pay for your profession and level. There are no solutions being argued for the livable wage side (and I’m not one of the trust fund/parents money types that are delusional). Adjusting minimum wage may help but there will always be the argument it’s not enough. The unions, when they were more prevalent , helped balance this out but folks have let them be decimated by the greedy owner class and now there’s very little shelter left for those not playing the corporate ladder game or who didn’t win the family lottery.
Was looking for this comment. Super sympathetic to the significant portion of the country in circumstances like this, but hard to feel so bad for OP…
There are a lot of thoughtful pieces of advice here (as well as a plethora of tone deaf and less-than-useful comments) but rather than responding or engaging to any of those in good faith, OP just tries to make the case that he/she is particularly disadvantaged and that suggestion cannot help them
I don’t get the thinking. I disagree that everyone is entitled to a multi bedroom house in the city of their choosing.
I think I read above that you’re middle aged (OP). It’s fairly easy to research career paths and salary projections. If you continue with your role, you may have to live in a different/less desirable area. That doesn’t mean you don’t have access to dignity…just means that Manhattan isn’t gonna work.
The second thing you can do is alter your career path. Lots of different ways to learn new skills/industries and develop additional skills. Those might come with additional sacrifices ( period of decreased family time, loans, relocation).
There are lots a highly in demand jobs right now paying over $50k. Again, these will also potentially require tradeoffs. You could manage a fast food restaurant for more than that. But that might conflict with your idea of dignity lol
If you’re coming here for advise on how you can improve your situation, you should focus your long posts on that instead of wasting your energy complaining about how tough your life above the poverty line is.
Tldr; expenses will keep rising. Probably makes sense to make a plan on how you can grow your income vs. investing time in complaining about government.
To add to this conversation, I have a close friend who owns a fairly small trucking company. His company finds the work, negotiates the rates and then employs truckers that own their trucks to do the work. They sign contracts to work for him exclusively. His guys are home (if they so choose) every night. With approximately $100k in business expenses, each of his truckers generate between 200-270 in revenue. Those expenses are maintenance, insurance, fuel and truck payments. That means that they take home between $100k and 170k to drive from Dallas to Houston and back every day. No manual labor, no jerk boss and living in Dallas/Fort Worth has many opportunities for nice homes at a decent cost. This requires a Commercial Driver License and being able to pass a drug test. Income is available for those that want to find it. The issue isn't a lack of opportunities. It is a lack of willingness to condescend to a lower employment class.
You need to think outside of the box. See what you need to get into low income housing. All my cousins figured out the formula. You need to have x many kids and never get married. Your "boyfriend" aka husband can visit all the time. My cousins pay less than 300 bucks a month in rent for a 4 bedroom home. It's what they call "working the system"
I totally empathize with you. I wouldn’t be able to find an affordable place to live if I didn’t live with my partner. It really makes you resentful of the job when you’re already broke again a week after getting paid because of the high cost of living not keeping with salary increase. The comments telling you to move…that’s not always the answer, and not to mention moving is time consuming and super expensive! Also, people need friends, a support system…while it’s possible, it’s incredibly challenging to rebuild your circle of people amidst an ongoing pandemic and in adulthood in general, when we are all spread so thin and busy. It’s hard to nurture new relationships and feel fulfilled in an unfamiliar place, it takes time to transition. The solution is to pay us more for a better standard of living!! Tired of the onus always being put back on the underpaid worker.
Hey Edelman 1 - I used to work at Edelman as well before switching careers. Edelman is a big part of why I have very little savings now (didn't realize how much they underpaid/took advantage of folks until I left). I don't know about your experiences, but hopefully they're better than mine were.
Life's not fair and there's less opportunity in the US than many countries.
We can and should do better.
We have a housing problem and our mortgage industry created a global financial crisis.
Rent-seeking is bad for the economy and does not create value.
Everybody deserves dignity which includes privacy and access to food and all things necessary for hygiene. In this wealthy country, there is absolutely no reason that should not be guaranteed for everybody.
Looking at your replies to people you’re honestly just looking to complain and not. Just buy a condo or townhouse or something a little further out from the city. I’m 23 and bought my first place for $188,000 making 52k at 21 with $12,000 I had saved myself and I’m within an hour commute to my HCOL city. My sister did the same about a year ago and only spent like $1500 out of pocket and used first time homebuyer programs for the rest. My place is now worth like $280k in less than two years. There’s lots of programs to get people into their first homes and you’re just looking to blame it on someone else
You wouldn’t just go buy that particular home or anything in that price range, you’d be looking to invest in an area where home pricing is still low and expected to increase. That’s how you make equity. I bought a home in 2018 and it increased in value by over $150k because houses around it started getting renovated. Think like an investor and you can easily do the same
Hey author - critical mistake here, assuming everyone places the same value on human life/dignity. There are people who see empty housing as an opportunity to improve society. And there are people who see empty housing as a way to stockpile away more wealth for themselves with no regard to the impact their choices have on others. Generally the second personality type that is unbothered by stepping on others to succeed at someone else’s expense tend to be more overrepresented and more successful in the banking/financial services industry.
The bottom line is they don’t *care* about affordable housing or the cost to society at large when it’s unavailable. So don’t expect better from the comments here - you won’t find it :)
I’m curious on how much you and everyone agreeing with you “gives back” to society? I’m willing to bet you could give a whole lot more than you already are, which would also make you greedy. The guy that has more than you is always the greedy one. But guess what, you’re that guy to somebody.
EY1; you didn’t come back with numbers so here’s some:
Direct aid in the form of stimulus checks and supplemental unemployment: $1T
All other government assistance given to businesses directly as forgivable PPP loans, Economic Injury Disaster Loans, and other programs: $4.7T
Growth in the Fed’s total assets over the past two years: $4.8T
Working class Americans may have gotten help, but the wealthy got almost 5x more. Inflation while regular folks are still struggling is the direct result.
IBA1; if you can’t see how unproductive wealth is detrimental to the economy and society at large, then you’re way out of your depth. And if you can’t understand why government not reigning it in is detrimental to capitalism then you’ve been miseducated.
US housing market is really in a bind. Certain areas like CA aren’t doing new construction which coupled with importing higher wage workers, drives up house prices. That lead to foreign investors getting in on the action which only decreases supply (they don’t rent they leave them empty, parking their money and getting a 10-20% return). On the other side you’ve had lots of homes getting snapped up in recent years by short-term renters like AirBnB which further decreases supply. Ordinarily older empty-nesters would sell their big house and relocate to a smaller place and but with the changes in home prices it doesn’t make sense to spend that much money on a condo, further decreasing supply.
All this crunch has priced lots of people out. This lead to an exodus of non-homeowners or owners of small houses who can’t afford to upgrade- they’re going to cheaper states (especially with wfh where you make the same money) and buying houses. The surge has now driven up housing prices in those neighboring states, sometimes beyond what the locals can afford.
Was anyone here able to make sense out of K1’s random ramblings? Can you help me out? Are we saying the US housing market is a cartel, and that all sellers have banded together to withhold inventory to drive up price?
Chief
The best possible answer is just to move somewhere else. I don’t know where you live, but there are so many affordable nice places to live in this country.
Chief
LOL. I live in one of the nicest towns in a major metro area. Homes are $2-300K. No crime. We all have to play the game.
Pro
I feel you on this. I was in a similar position years ago. Find a new job with a pay bump (I went from 52k to 75k in 2014). If your pay doesn’t steadily increase keep finding new jobs. After 8 years I now make around $160k. Just bought my first house last year! Unlike a lot of people on this app, I don’t have family money, investment properties, etc. Single income, never married. I cant afford to max out my 401k but I’m ok with how its doing. I have a very small amount of money invested, and still don’t have a six month emergency fund. It’s hard, but it gets better!!
I make a very similar amount to you, have similar stated expenses, but am the sole bread winner, and have four kids. Our kids participate in several activities.
I also don't have family money, but we are very frugal. Our home is quite nice, and in a nice area.
Either, there is some expense that you're not considering or something crazy is happening. 160k year should be bringing you around 11,000 month after tax.
There are 16 million empty habitable units in the United States. There are 33 empty habitable homes for every counted homeless person in the United States.
I am a married, college educated mother in my late thirties.
And most of these comments don’t pass the vibe check.
If I had a bingo card for the common arguments that come up when people bring up the housing situation in this country, this thread alone would give me at least two BINGO!
It also strikes me as so funny how everyone has solutions like they know.
I have moved 2.5k miles to avoid homelessness, in 2019. Guess what I got for wages where I landed? $15/hr for skilled desk work. And far fewer job opportunities. Saying I should move supposes there is greener grass elsewhere. It’s been my experience that there isn’t. Also, what a heartless suggestion. A person should be willing to give up their families, social connections, and lives in the vain search for stability?
Also, when I say I can’t find housing, I’m not saying I can’t find a suburban McMansion. I’m saying I CANNOT FIND A TWO BEDROOM SLUM APARTMENT TO RENT. There is a chasm between what is affordable and what is available. And again, THERE ARE SIXTEEN MILLION HABITABLE HOMES STANDING EMPTY.
Sincerely, all of you simping for this system because you haven’t been crushed under the wheel yet are in for a rude awakening. At some point, you’ll stand to lose it all. And when you rant about your plights, you’ll be met with these same phrases you supplied to someone struggling.
EY 2: this bowl is nothing but people in public accounting/banking/consulting. They can’t relate to a 53k salary lol
Your problem is the problem of the majority of the middle and working class, and the obliviously facile responses displayed here lay bare the out-of-touch opinions of those who continue to live comfortably.
Their day is coming - the middle class is shrinking as the cost to live the “american dream” continues to outpace the average American’s earnings. Soon we will all be reduced to debt-slaves, little more than serfs toiling away all day to shave off tiny slivers of our debt to the mega-rich and multinational corporations hoovering up the affordable housing and driving rent prices ever skyward.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/23/us/corporate-real-estate-investors-housing-market.html
The answer? It very well may come down to gallows and guillotines.
But for now, look on the bright side, at least you’re individually earning almost as much as the median household income in this country… and on one salary no less!
https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2021/demo/p60-273.html
But, ya know, “bootstraps!”
Some of these comments, man. It’s really easy to tell someone to get a better job if they’re only making $X a year but then don’t complain when there’s no one who wants to work those jobs.
Enthusiast
Who here is complaining "no one wants to work those jobs." I haven't seen a single comment in this thread stating as much. Speaking for myself, I think it's great some jobs are currently unfillable due to the disparity of mental/physical toil they require and the wages they pay.
Also, y’all are so broken.
There are THIRTEEN MILLION EMPTY HOMES at the last count.
There is no reason for this issue.
It can be a decent job. But the industry chews through people.
Apparently turnover averaged 94% between 1995 and 2017. Averaged.
I've known people who have made good money and I know people who have been exploited. It's not a sure thing and it's often very unpleasant.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/dec/27/us-truck-drivers-economy-pay-conditions
Love how most of the responses are from finance, senior, executives that probably have NEVER had a 53k job. This country is just ridiculous for the amount of people that are so fast to criticize and judge without even having some compassion or support for others. A one bedroom apartment in NYC is from 3,700 to 5100, that’s just not sustainable is just not okay when people aren’t even making close to that much money a month. I really feel bad for people trying to live in the city right now, and nd for those saying yeah move out or find another job in something else. That’s not the point.
While I agree with the sentiment, the delivery is poor. You cannot have it all. I made 34K out of college, worked weekends serving tables and moved to find better opportunities and moved again to find more. And that was in 2008 when the economy was in the tank. Just anecdotal but cmon the levers of affordability are what they are. Location/cost living vs pay for your profession and level. There are no solutions being argued for the livable wage side (and I’m not one of the trust fund/parents money types that are delusional). Adjusting minimum wage may help but there will always be the argument it’s not enough. The unions, when they were more prevalent , helped balance this out but folks have let them be decimated by the greedy owner class and now there’s very little shelter left for those not playing the corporate ladder game or who didn’t win the family lottery.
Is there a point to this post? Is it to vent or to ask for advice?
Was looking for this comment. Super sympathetic to the significant portion of the country in circumstances like this, but hard to feel so bad for OP…
There are a lot of thoughtful pieces of advice here (as well as a plethora of tone deaf and less-than-useful comments) but rather than responding or engaging to any of those in good faith, OP just tries to make the case that he/she is particularly disadvantaged and that suggestion cannot help them
I don’t get the thinking. I disagree that everyone is entitled to a multi bedroom house in the city of their choosing.
I think I read above that you’re middle aged (OP). It’s fairly easy to research career paths and salary projections. If you continue with your role, you may have to live in a different/less desirable area. That doesn’t mean you don’t have access to dignity…just means that Manhattan isn’t gonna work.
The second thing you can do is alter your career path. Lots of different ways to learn new skills/industries and develop additional skills. Those might come with additional sacrifices ( period of decreased family time, loans, relocation).
There are lots a highly in demand jobs right now paying over $50k. Again, these will also potentially require tradeoffs. You could manage a fast food restaurant for more than that. But that might conflict with your idea of dignity lol
If you’re coming here for advise on how you can improve your situation, you should focus your long posts on that instead of wasting your energy complaining about how tough your life above the poverty line is.
Tldr; expenses will keep rising. Probably makes sense to make a plan on how you can grow your income vs. investing time in complaining about government.
To add to this conversation, I have a close friend who owns a fairly small trucking company. His company finds the work, negotiates the rates and then employs truckers that own their trucks to do the work. They sign contracts to work for him exclusively.
His guys are home (if they so choose) every night. With approximately $100k in business expenses, each of his truckers generate between 200-270 in revenue. Those expenses are maintenance, insurance, fuel and truck payments.
That means that they take home between $100k and 170k to drive from Dallas to Houston and back every day. No manual labor, no jerk boss and living in Dallas/Fort Worth has many opportunities for nice homes at a decent cost. This requires a Commercial Driver License and being able to pass a drug test.
Income is available for those that want to find it. The issue isn't a lack of opportunities. It is a lack of willingness to condescend to a lower employment class.
Relocate to a market where you can afford property. Or find another job that pays you enough to afford housing.
You need to think outside of the box. See what you need to get into low income housing. All my cousins figured out the formula. You need to have x many kids and never get married. Your "boyfriend" aka husband can visit all the time. My cousins pay less than 300 bucks a month in rent for a 4 bedroom home. It's what they call "working the system"
I totally empathize with you. I wouldn’t be able to find an affordable place to live if I didn’t live with my partner. It really makes you resentful of the job when you’re already broke again a week after getting paid because of the high cost of living not keeping with salary increase. The comments telling you to move…that’s not always the answer, and not to mention moving is time consuming and super expensive! Also, people need friends, a support system…while it’s possible, it’s incredibly challenging to rebuild your circle of people amidst an ongoing pandemic and in adulthood in general, when we are all spread so thin and busy. It’s hard to nurture new relationships and feel fulfilled in an unfamiliar place, it takes time to transition. The solution is to pay us more for a better standard of living!! Tired of the onus always being put back on the underpaid worker.
Hey Edelman 1 - I used to work at Edelman as well before switching careers. Edelman is a big part of why I have very little savings now (didn't realize how much they underpaid/took advantage of folks until I left). I don't know about your experiences, but hopefully they're better than mine were.
Pro
Can’t your parents give you a loan?
Pro
Cool, sometimes seriously hard to tell on this app!!
Life's not fair and there's less opportunity in the US than many countries.
We can and should do better.
We have a housing problem and our mortgage industry created a global financial crisis.
Rent-seeking is bad for the economy and does not create value.
Everybody deserves dignity which includes privacy and access to food and all things necessary for hygiene. In this wealthy country, there is absolutely no reason that should not be guaranteed for everybody.
Looking at your replies to people you’re honestly just looking to complain and not. Just buy a condo or townhouse or something a little further out from the city. I’m 23 and bought my first place for $188,000 making 52k at 21 with $12,000 I had saved myself and I’m within an hour commute to my HCOL city. My sister did the same about a year ago and only spent like $1500 out of pocket and used first time homebuyer programs for the rest. My place is now worth like $280k in less than two years. There’s lots of programs to get people into their first homes and you’re just looking to blame it on someone else
You wouldn’t just go buy that particular home or anything in that price range, you’d be looking to invest in an area where home pricing is still low and expected to increase. That’s how you make equity. I bought a home in 2018 and it increased in value by over $150k because houses around it started getting renovated. Think like an investor and you can easily do the same
Hey author - critical mistake here, assuming everyone places the same value on human life/dignity. There are people who see empty housing as an opportunity to improve society. And there are people who see empty housing as a way to stockpile away more wealth for themselves with no regard to the impact their choices have on others. Generally the second personality type that is unbothered by stepping on others to succeed at someone else’s expense tend to be more overrepresented and more successful in the banking/financial services industry.
The bottom line is they don’t *care* about affordable housing or the cost to society at large when it’s unavailable. So don’t expect better from the comments here - you won’t find it :)
I’m curious on how much you and everyone agreeing with you “gives back” to society? I’m willing to bet you could give a whole lot more than you already are, which would also make you greedy. The guy that has more than you is always the greedy one. But guess what, you’re that guy to somebody.
You’re mad at the super wealthy for not using their money to solve your problems…?
Pro
EY1; you didn’t come back with numbers so here’s some:
Direct aid in the form of stimulus checks and supplemental unemployment: $1T
All other government assistance given to businesses directly as forgivable PPP loans, Economic Injury Disaster Loans, and other programs: $4.7T
Growth in the Fed’s total assets over the past two years: $4.8T
Working class Americans may have gotten help, but the wealthy got almost 5x more. Inflation while regular folks are still struggling is the direct result.
IBA1; if you can’t see how unproductive wealth is detrimental to the economy and society at large, then you’re way out of your depth. And if you can’t understand why government not reigning it in is detrimental to capitalism then you’ve been miseducated.
https://www.investopedia.com/how-the-coronavirus-stimulus-bills-affect-you-4800404#toc-how-much-has-the-us-spent-on-covid-relief
You have a couple options:
1, increase your income
2, lower your expectations
I make 60k a year from my w2 job. Managed to buy a primary home and 2 investment properties in the last 18 months.
Bummer. I would hate for a family to permanently live in a glorified hotel room on the third floor of a building with no elevator.
The victim mentality here…
US housing market is really in a bind. Certain areas like CA aren’t doing new construction which coupled with importing higher wage workers, drives up house prices. That lead to foreign investors getting in on the action which only decreases supply (they don’t rent they leave them empty, parking their money and getting a 10-20% return). On the other side you’ve had lots of homes getting snapped up in recent years by short-term renters like AirBnB which further decreases supply. Ordinarily older empty-nesters would sell their big house and relocate to a smaller place and but with the changes in home prices it doesn’t make sense to spend that much money on a condo, further decreasing supply.
All this crunch has priced lots of people out. This lead to an exodus of non-homeowners or owners of small houses who can’t afford to upgrade- they’re going to cheaper states (especially with wfh where you make the same money) and buying houses. The surge has now driven up housing prices in those neighboring states, sometimes beyond what the locals can afford.
Move to any city in the mid-Atlantic (except DC area) the South (except a couple cities in FL) or the Mid West
Was anyone here able to make sense out of K1’s random ramblings? Can you help me out? Are we saying the US housing market is a cartel, and that all sellers have banded together to withhold inventory to drive up price?