{ "media_type": "text", "post_content": "I recently heard a client talking about the sex wage gap as if it were real. I declined to engage since I didn't want to irritate the client. However, I thought this had been conclusively dispelled? There is no statistical disparity in pay for the same work between the sexes right? How do you correct this fallacy with a client? Is it worth it?", "post_id": "609db8212e68dc00206f618d", "reply_count": 66, "vote_count": 5, "bowl_id": "58f82c66e7a8f40010f612a7", "bowl_name": "Politics" }

I recently heard a client talking about the sex wage gap as if it were real. I declined to engage since I didn't want to irritate the client. However, I thought this had been conclusively dispelled? There is no statistical disparity in pay for the same work between the sexes right? How do you correct this fallacy with a client? Is it worth it?

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People try to conflate an earnings gap, which is if you aggregate all men and all women and then take the difference, with wage gap, which is paying a woman with the same qualifications less than a man for the same role and hours. The first exists and is not necessarily a bad thing, women on average make different life choices which drive that aggregate disparity. And that’s ok. The second does not exist and it is against the law.

likeupliftinghelpful

Well articulated! I suppose it is best to ask which situation they are referring to, since it seems even in this thread there is significant confusion

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How were they discussing it? We lack sufficient data for exact same experience, role, career decisions, etc. for all ages including base and bonus, but estimates peg this at 96% coverage. Most efforts firms take address base, but not biases on staffing, for example, that could impact chargeability and therefore bonus and or prestige and potentially promotion speed. Over a career, the gap exists. Quoting a stat like $0.77 is a representation that captures the different expectations placed on women over their lives, including education, pressure for certain careers that match gender roles, progression and pay in those or any career, use of parental leave (typically Mat leave or primary leave) while men work, and who takes care of kids, as well as expectations of hours when caring for kids. That second piece undeniably exists as a systematic gap that will remain for decades until we catch up on pushing from the bottom up. Just because an issue doesn’t exist on a massive scale at one level (23% bias in a specific slice), doesn’t mean doesn’t exist for the overall, and especially doesn’t mean we shouldn’t make an effort to correct it.

Your client is wrong. And at this point either using the joke for fun to diminish the guys or is willfully wrong. Not cool, but you’re right it’s probably best not to correct. Regarding years off, there’s no issue if it’s her choice. I’m worried about 1) the 4% difference where a result of bias or opportunities, and 2) different pressures / expectations / opportunities for men vs women that lead to specific decisions. If a woman wants to make nothing for 4yrs that’s fine. If she returns and her new peer group makes more, that’s a problem. It’s also a problem when companies offer 16wks for a woman’s leave but 3wks for the guy. It should be encouraged to be equal. It’s also an issue when women feel pressured to be specific professions.

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Who conclusively dispelled it? Are you sure you’re not confusing parity in genders due to more women getting college degrees rather than women getting pay parity for the same role?

likehelpful

Women get paid the same as men for the same work

likehelpful

...can you show me what data, or study you have used to declare that dispelled that? Because of of the data, evidence and literature point to there being a quite explicit wage gap between genders.

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Thomas Sowell lmaooooooooo of course.

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My female co-worker quite literally make 70 cents on my dollar for better work OP. Sauce your nonsense or sit down. Wage gap is real, a handful of specific industries actively trying to mitigate the issue does not debunk the longstanding factual reality.

likefunny

I also make much less than my female coworkers😠

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There is no such thing. Just another left wing talking point meant to divide us.

likefunny

M1, do you get paid per post?

likesmarthelpful

My understanding (perhaps wrong) is that these often cited figures refer to a gross gap which is meaningless. The above article and many others show that there is no difference in pay for the same experience and job right?

likefunny

There's biological research that suggests that, on average, men are more status seeking than women, and so more likely to prioritize career and money over relationships. Human women are sexually selective, which exacerbates the need for males to become status seeking in order to mate. There's also research that suggests that, under stress, women tend to be better decision makers and stick to their training vs. men. So, arguably, women may be better suited for police or combat roles, assuming you believe the training is appropriate and reduced physical capacity is less important today in these roles.

Food for thought: if employers actually knew they could get the same experience, skill, education etc for a 30% discount three wouldn't be any men working anymore.

likesmart

Additionally, there aren't enough women to replace men. Are there more women than men in lower paying

"More female CEOs! More women in Tech!" What about bricklayers, trash collectors, and coal miners?

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I agree with this statement, I have always said we should provide incentives for women to join careers where they are materially underrepresented, and the same foe men as well.

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This is anecdotal, but a female classmate of mine from b school and I (male) were hired at the same level, same practice, office etc. I had maybe a few more years of experience, but she was making a full 10k less than me. While it may not be of statistical significance, these instances make me question the stats and assertions that there is no wage gap.

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Non-adjusted wage gap is that ~70 cents on the dollar figure we’ve all heard of. Adjusted wage gap (same position, same YOE, etc) is very small (3-5%) (this SHOULD be 0) Still, I think we’d like to imagine a world where women and men are equally represented in the workforce and that non-adjusted figure is a lot closer to 0.

Women don’t ask for raises as much as men. This is a fact not an opinion

Why? (assuming the data support this)

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