I write better than a good portion of my creative team. Granted I went to school for it and freelance for magazines a bit but still. My hobby skills shouldn't be better than your day job skills!

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As have I, knowing that equating good writing with technically correct copy is a fallacy. Otherwise i wouldn't bother hiring writers, I'd just hire proofreaders.

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Eh, I feel like the majority of people just keep in their career lane and eventually move up the ladder without taking a moment to think objectively, "Am I any good at this?"

I mean, fuck. I'm in HR. How the hell did that happen?
Should I be a copywriter? Fuck yes I should.
Do I want to go to portfolio school to make that happen and then take a pay cut? Nope.

So, as you can see, this is how you get people in copywriter positions who can't write, and idiots in HR positions that tell you way too much on the internet.

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I think a lot of people think they can write or design, but doing it professionally is a whole different story. Sure, maybe you can write an interesting magazine article but that does not (necessarily) translate into writing for advertising. Crafting 7 words to fit in a 300x250 px looping gif, all within the defined confines of the brief, is fucking hard. It's a discipline unto itself. On a side note, shit like this is why "creatives hate account people." Because they think our job is easy because it's "just writing." You think you're actually good at something, walk a mile in our moccasins.

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I think writing is a talent that you either have or don't have. It's hard to learn it. If you have it, then use it!!

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"i write better than a good portion of my creative team," when you have never actually done it, both implies it's easy and does diminish the craft. I have seen a lot of juniors who are either lazy or don't have he skill set. The lazy ones can't cut it in the industry to begin with so they flake out. The ones who don't have the skill set, become account people.

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VP, AD, how long have you been a writer? Most copywriters suck at it for years before they are good at it at all. then they are good for only a few years before their shit gets stale and they coast on the tricks they learned along the way. Art is subjective, but good artist take time to develop.

So yeah, maybe you're a better writer than most because technically you have honed the craft. But do you have the raw talent? And if so, why are you a glorified secretary as your career? Should t you be a writer?

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^ Oddly enough, this can be a valid excuse. This is one of the reasons you've probably never seen or heard the word "whom" in any sort of copy, despite it being completely appropriate in the moment. People, surprisingly enough, like to hear voices that connect with them.

As a professional copywriter (which is distinctly different from being any other kind of writer), one of the first and, admittedly, most difficult lessons I learned was that no one is ever won over with a good semicolon. They're won over with a good point.

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Chill CD. I didn't say it was easy and I don't diminish the craft. Hating on account people in general is literally the same thing as saying creatives have no excuse because writing is easy. I didn't say the latter so don't go saying the former. But you gotta admit if you're a CD you encounter tons of junior and mid level copywriters who either don't have the skill set or are just lazy at work. And that takes into account the short form nuanced writing style we use in advertising.

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That also sounds like a failure of protocol. No offense but it's not a producer's job to correct grammar. Sometimes things are grammatically incorrect but sound better, more natural, when spoken. So it's the CD's call creatively, then accounts should flag it for the client, client should approve it and then record. Now sure, do some alts when you're in studio but it should be crystal clear what client approved. I know you said it was a scratch but still, everyone should have some level of common understanding of what is being recorded.

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There are copywriters out there who don't know basic grammar / spelling / punctuation. There is no excuse for that. On the other side of the spectrum, there are people who are brilliant writers who bend and break those rules.

There are great 'long copy' writers who could never create a fantastic campaign, but would never split an infinitive. And there are copywriters that know splitting an infinitive can be the essence of a great idea.

Where you sit on that spectrum, I.E. Your idea of 'good writing' makes a big difference to how we can respond to your post. So tell us – what is your example of 'writing better'?

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I've had to correct simple and obvious grammar mistakes of every copywriter/ACD I've worked with.

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For the record, there are great account people and there are shitty ones. There are great creatives and there are shitty ones. The people who make generalizations about another department typically don't make it past the Creative Director or Account Executive positions because they are too ignorant to understand this is a creative BUSINESS and if you partner together you can win business and hold on to them for years, making yourself extremely successful.

So keep on making general comparisons... it won't matter how good at your craft is... you will never run an account creatively or account wise.

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Dyslexic here. I wouldn't have a career without spell check and editors. 30 years ago, I probably would've been a cab driver or ditch digger. I didn't see my first B until I got in college and was using a computer. I have to figure out phrasing to avoid words I can't spell. And somehow that deficiency has developed my creative brain to look at things differently than others. And that's led to a pretty solid career, even if my manuscripts are a bit messier and my process is confusing. I suck at editing. I can't focus on it, at all, but I can write the shit out of an idea.

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I sort of agree with OP that it's very annoying when creatives don't value the craft, because it's lazy. There's a lot of copywriters who can't write for shit, and there's a lot of art directors who can't design for shit. They get by just slinging concepts. At the end of the day, there's a lot more that goes into being a good creative than just the craft of it, and a great concept can compensate for lackluster writing, but OP def has a valid point being annoyed by people who repeatedly disregard basic grammar, spelling, syntax etc. and make everyone else's lives harder because of it.

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That being said, OP does come off as ignorant and yet another member of the "I could do your job better if I had the chance" club of assholes.

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^^well said

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@CD1 - I'm not talking early in the game, I'm talking continuously making the same grammar mistakes after they've been corrected, and hearing them in a scratch VO a few days into an edit for a project I jumped on. Blatantly wrong. I agree my company needs proofreading, but the excuse of one was "oh yea I thought it sounded weird..." 2 months in and it sounds weird? Dude come on.

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@DP1 - Oh. Oh my.

All right, in that case, Tina, bring me the axe.

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OP, I've worked with freelance writers like you. They balked and were utterly inept at Promotional COPYwriting, thoroughly different from any other writing.

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Wow I must've hit a nerve or two. Sorry guys. CD1 I wish more guys without the chops or talent WOULD fall out of the industry but I haven't seen too much fall out at the agencies I've been at. Also I make no generalizations here I am just expressing that it's surprising how many specifically bad ad copy guys still have jobs. Funny how since its coming from an account guy you guys won't give the statement any credit. I bet if another CD said it you'd be right there with him talking about how you'd love to clean house and get the bad seeds out. There are many amazing copywriters and I love working with them. I'm not talking about them or diminishing the skills required, in fact just the opposite. Also the way you guys talk about account management at the director level is worrisome given a thorough understanding of how the agency sells in work and makes money should be top of mind at this point in your career in addition to winning awards and padding your book for the next gig. If I'm a glorified secretary I encourage you to start your own shop. You'll make a lot more money that way and isn't that why you're in this game to begin with?

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