{ "media_type": "text", "post_content": "if women really earned 78% for the same work, don't you think some bright management consultants would recognize this as an opportunity to reduce labor costs?", "post_id": "58c02d0f559b740011c57ef4", "reply_count": 78, "vote_count": 61, "bowl_id": "552d1d24dc1c586b09d2d051", "bowl_name": "Consulting", "feed_type": "crowd" }
null

if women really earned 78% for the same work, don't you think some bright management consultants would recognize this as an opportunity to reduce labor costs?

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A2- Also, thank you for your kind comment. Sadly, I could come up with several others who are also underpaid so it is not just me and not just Deloitte. Also, I totally agree about getting personal. I have over 7,000 Fish Bowl points so I do know how to carry myself within the bowl. If I got personal, I was prob sick of people attacking me for what I thought would actually be an illuminating discussion and 2. I truly was between meetings and could not proof read as I normally would. Women have an important role to play in this, but considering that most senior positions are held by men, men kind of hold the levers or at least a lot of them so it would be nice to see the men of Fish Bowl entertain the notion that this is even a thing instead of attacking someone who was attempting to share her story in an educational manner.

A2- thanks for the encouragement. Well, I'm not sitting around and complaining. I'm first trying to remedy it within the firm since 90% of everything else about my job is pretty much exactly what I want out of a job and my career- from the work I do on a daily basis, to the skills I am gaining, to the people with whom I work. I'm in a niche area that I know for a fact does not exist at most of the other major consulting firms and if it does, it is a very small portion of the work and is hard to break into, as it is within D. Thanks to FB, my plan is to apply for other things and have the offers, ideally, ready over the summer so that they'll hit during the comp review time. Like others have mentioned, since I am at the low end, my, probably naive hope, was that a high rating and a review of how below the norm I am would be enough to adjust me to where would make sense. Anyways, thanks for the tough love and hopefully I'll be over the $100k mark sooner rather than later. Also, part of why I didn't try the other offer option sooner was bc I have heard that it can backfire.

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This is why people don't get statistics. On average women get paid less. When you actually compare job to job, there is no wage gas. Women just tend to prefer teaching, social work, nursing, etc. These are jobs that for whatever reason are lower paying.

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D1 this is you, "let's take one example of my personal experience and completely ignore all context and look at it from that single factor and pretend that correlation = causation"

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AT DELOITTE EXPERIENCED HIRES GET A PAY AND LEVEL CUT WHEN COMING ON

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Revered economist, Thomas Sowell killed the wage gap myth 4 decades ago... https://youtu.be/QZho1k7-8Yo. It's still being peddled today by power grabbers with very sinister motives.

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A1 - not true. Great longitudinal study by Chicago economist Marianne Bertrand. Basically, for MBA grads (relevant here) something like 4-6% of the wage gap is unexplained. If there is systematic discrimination, it's on that order of magnitude. The other ~15-20% is explainable by differences like choice of profession and time out of workforce. That doesn't dismiss those as problems though. Women choose lower paying jobs at least in part because high paying ones have shit cultures which disproportionately affect them. Time out of workforce (e.g. maternity leave) has a more-than-linear effect, so it's not just years/tenure. Why shouldn't banking be as hospitable to women (or just anyone wanting a family) as it is to single men. Changing culture is just as addressable (and maybe more so) and more impactful than some nebulous systematic discrimination.

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A1- not true at all and I have lived it. That's why I am in biz. Still paid less than male peers with significantly less experience and for the same job

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D1 that is definitely not the case at Deloitte. Get to work

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Maybe that is why you are being paid so low and not doing well as a consultant...

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Because people keep perpetuating and exaggerating the gender gap

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Makes noise and cries foul. When asked important to get to the root, she runs. GFOH with that victim mentality.

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D1, but that's not necessarily because you're a woman. One factor is that women tend not to negotiate as well, and I know that there are tons of people making more than me, I suck at negotiations.

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Well what university and practice area? A new hire out of undergrad makes more than this in Deloitte consulting so something doesn't add up here.

How does your publishing history matter and why is it relevant?

Why should they just give you the 6k if the market doesn't dictate it? If the offer was so bad then why not go elsewhere? This just doesn't make much sense onthe surface.

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Deloitte had a data leak from the Sony hack a couple of years ago that points to the very fact that it's women employees DO get paid less... http://goingconcern.com/sony-hack-also-leaked-deloitte-salaries-reveals-gender-gap/

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There is a gap but it is not as exaggerated as it is made out to be.

If you normalize for major, career area, years experience and other variables, it is only a few points off.

We are in companies where this is far less of an issue.

Male/female undergrads and MBA hires come in at the same pay for the most part. Ratings year over year generate the comp increase and that is the same regardless of sex.

Experienced hires get what they negotiate. Women leaving the workforce however will certainly impact their earning power and has a tendency to stunt growth.

Societal norms are far more the restriction than compensation models and negotiation.

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Not that interested but I don't see how this one got toxic. Questions were asked and weren't answered but this simply doesn't add up.

You may be being paid less than you feel you deserve but Deloitte has a strong culture of equity and female leadership.

A female friend at Deloitte that I talk to a lot, most years made more than I did and I was a level ahead of her (different firm). We started together there and as a high performer she was typically at the top of her level band.

I know a few women at Deloitte from manager to Partner and they are doing well and have pay equity. Some know this better as their husbands/partners are also there.

Asking questions or poking holes doesn't make this toxic. If you can't shed more detail then perhaps this isn't the appropriate forum but as of now, your points just fall outside the norm and don't lime up with the standard consulting ecosystem.

Had I been quoting Ari Gold: "Fire a man create a rival, fire a woman create a house wife" - or being obnoxious - then this would be toxic but A2 and I seemed to want to understand your situation and why it was a deviation from the norm.

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PC1 is asking valid questions and D1 is doing the online equivalent of covering her ears and saying "LA LA LA LA"

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There is a great podcast on freaksnomics about the wage gap. Check it out.

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Oh God. Just when I though this dumpster fire was going to end, D1 says "if only Hillary had won...". Everyone go charge you phones! It time to hear how D1 would have been a Supreme Court justice or in a cabinet position had the evil white heterosexual man not undermined her candidate.

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Correct- it is complex, but I was negotiating my salary at $80k when I interviewed, they then offered me $65k, I negotiated it up to $70k and they made it seem like if I pushed any further that I would jeopardize the offer. This was with a top masters and 8 years of experience. I know men two years out of undergrad making $77k and I'm still at $71,800 (after two years) and we have the same title. So....

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This is not sex based

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