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Fishbowl is lava!
Has anyone heard anything from the Amtrak RFP?
So here’s my issue. I don’t demonize Office diversity. Never have. Big proponent of office diversity. My current team is diverse which I think is great. I recognize the issue and more can be done. You ask why I get defensive. Allow me to quote lines from this thread. “Boo fucking hoo @ all the white guys in this thread feeling sorry for themselves bc you’re just starting to be held accountable for your actions.” “White men got their feelings hurt because someone hinted at the idea that they have it easier than they would if they weren’t white and/or male. You’re not an ally. You’re not on the right side. You’re not reasonable...” “You getting butthurt about my comment is hilarious. Your entitlement must really be weighing on you, poor privileged little white man.”
This kind of childish, hateful, accusatory talk hurts the cause and advancement of diversity. These people do more harm than good. We’re all adults so let’s have an adult discussion like some people are on this thread. Stop throwing temper tantrums w no real proposed solution or constructive points
Not to rehash this.. but as a young woman of color, at the start of my career, I find this thread incredibly heartbreaking but equally motivating. Thank you to everyone fighting the good fight. To those challenging diversity initiatives, i wouldn’t be in the industry without it. If you don’t believe me, look at a few agency websites and count how many people of color are in leadership roles. Actually, count how many women of color are in leadership roles. Thats what I had to face every time I applied somewhere.. I’m lucky to be at an agency whose roster is representative of the audiences we serve. It is very clear that diverse perspectives EQUATES to talent. I’m sorry but it isn’t really too difficult to say that a group of white men may not do the best job when tasked to tackle social issues regarding POC as a brand. /: this isn’t a matter of talent, as you say, this is those in power feeling oppression for the first time bc people of color want to be heard
boo fucking hoo @ all the white guys in this thread feeling sorry for themselves bc you're just starting to be held accountable for your actions.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but white men don't have the monopoly on talent, right? Are white men the only people in the world who can write well, who can art direct expertly, who can deftly handle clients or come up with solutions? If talent was being prioritised the industry would be more diverse because white guys aren't the only people in the world who can do shit. What is and has always been a priority is hiring people who look and sound like the folks already working in industry, all under the guise of culture fit. If you're feeling personally attacked because these are the facts there's nothing I can do for you.
Did anyone actually read the link? It was a direct response to a quote from M&C Saatchi's CCO and I'm pretty disappointed by the petty reactions here.
I'm tired of diversity being used for a cover of self advancement, it does no favors to the cause. It would be more authentic if it were not just groups looking out for themselves and 'their own' but others as well. Just wishing these amazing opportune movements were more selfless and less about casting blame. Its true power seems squandered, potential energy lost. In several past agencies, always a lot of women centered groups, but I'd love for them to be more inclusive of diversity in general, for instance, black people, which is arguably way more rare in our industry (and Minneapolis). We should all be fighting for one another and not just our specific demographics.
I think it's really telling that in most of the threads on fishbowl where diversity is being discussed, diverse people and talent are always at always odds, always put in opposition to each other. Why is it so difficult to believe that a person who is black or a woman or trans or a Muslim or in a wheel chair can't be also be talented and hardworking and good at their job? I'm genuinely at a loss. Someone help me understand why in this day and age another human can say something like "better to get proper smart talent than a room filled with diverse idiots" like having a minority identity prevents people from also being proper smart talent. A person can be smart, talented, have a good work ethic have common sense and be black, all at the same damn time. I'm at a loss for words.
@Havas No one ever said all white men are evil either but that's how y'all are reacting. So defensively. Every diverse person who walks through the doors of our agencies is smart and talented. You don't get this far if you're not; and as a person of color, you've often got to work twice as hard to get there. Stop demonizing office diversity like it's a personal attack on your livelihood and start realizing the incredible potential that people of color can offer. To see such Mad Men era regressive thinking makes me sick.
The irony, condescension, and complete lack of self awareness in the responses from these apologists is so, so disheartening. White men got their feelings hurt because someone hinted at the idea that they have it easier than they would if they weren't white and/or male. You're not an ally. You're not on the right side. You're not reasonable. You're just as much of a problem as Justin, and telling us, who have clearly figured out how to deal with this issue individually, that we have to be MORE sensitive to you?
Save you're fake empathy and paternal tone.
being able to categorize me as a "toxic person," close this thread and never have to think about it again is a privilege that most of us don't have.
best of luck. @Havas
Thanks for the weekly post reminding me that as white male everything is my fault and I’m essentially Satan. It’s like a broken record. Try a new approach. The accusatory/blanket anger towards “white men” is getting real old. Diversity is important and should be discussed, but lose the hatred or you’re no better than what you’re preaching against.
CD1 - I feel like in spaces where diversity is lacking, the best strategy for underrepresented groups is to advocate for their own first. Largely because they inherently know the needs of their own and can agree on common goals. While I agree that extending those efforts outward can be really effective, sometimes it can’t happen like that.
CW2 - Yes, this does come up a lot. I’d say it’s pretty indicative of the continual frustration with a lack of diversity.
Havas 1 - Asking seriously, what approach would you suggest? I’ve noticed that any time a woman or POC brings up their frustrations with a) the white men around them or b) the industry as a whole, the immediate reaction isn’t positive.
CAD1 - Inherent in the Tindall quote is the assumption that diverse hires are less talented. That by bringing in different perspectives and voices, you’re losing or diluting some existing voice that is better or more effective. And I’m assuming Tindall feels this way pretty damn strongly because it’s the second thing he says he’s bored with. His brain was more mad about that than the 17 other things he mentioned.
maybe instead of feeling sorry for yourself and trying to mansplain to those who are directly impacted by your privilege, take some steps to educate yourself.
What's most telling to me is that I can't see what anyone actually "shit on" white men in general, but you all got tweaked.
Someone posts this exact posts every 48 hours. It’s also boring.
@Havas you getting butthurt about my comment is hilarious. your entitlement must really be weighing on you, poor privileged little white man.
@Publicis 1 I'm deeply disturbed that you think minority individuals can't also have a good work ethic and common sense.
For everyone that has an issue with calling out white men or white people specifically, instead of telling us HOW POC should be acting and calling out issues, I’ll do you a solid and give you some context and resources. This one’s for free, but know that it shouldn’t be on other people to educate you on why or what we do. I’m charging next time 💵💵💵
https://youtu.be/BAvFAm1eJEQ
Unconscious bias exists and favors white men (in the US, anyway). That's not your fault. Diversity programs (whether based on race, gender, ability, orientation, or none of these) and initiatives exist so that organizations do the only thing that allows them to address unconscious bias... conscious work. The point is not diversity itself... companies are not in it for the people. The point is that if you don't do something to address the unconscious biases that exist in every one of us, you will not consider the entire pool of talent. The point is to get the best talent in spite of unconscious biases that disfavor minorities and women.
So, better proper, smart talent than a room filled with homogeneous idiots.
@Fallon 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
Yuuuuup....