{ "media_type": "text", "post_content": "Is anyone else upset by how much we lose from our paychecks to taxes?? I calculated it out and it’s like 20% of mine. Why give people stimulus checks when you could just have everyone pay less in taxes.", "post_id": "60f26019857877002fef6339", "reply_count": 910, "vote_count": 168, "bowl_id": "5e6fe1c31f5e51001d267e46", "bowl_name": "Coronavirus Work-life" }

Is anyone else upset by how much we lose from our paychecks to taxes?? I calculated it out and it’s like 20% of mine. Why give people stimulus checks when you could just have everyone pay less in taxes.

likefunnysmarthelpfuluplifting
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So let’s say instead of a stimulus check last year (the first one) taxes were reduced to… 0? To answer I think the initial question here. April last year I got $2,400 deposited in my bank account (MFJ but spouse doesn’t work). That was a cash injection. Now what if taxes were reduced instead? If I was taxed at 0% I would have an extra $190 in my bank account (my paycheck taxes are effectively 8% - Texas, low pay, dependent child). So that’s $2,400 vs $190. So why a stimulus check rather than reduce taxes? Because reducing taxes (even all the way down to 0) would take many months for us to have enough money to “stimulate” the economy. Not debating how taxes are necessary and what the appropriate level is. But to your initial question here - stimulus checks were more appropriate for the situation.

likesmart

Except they based it on 2019 income for some people so you had many people unaffected by the pandemic (kept job and pay) receive them despite being over the limits based on 2020 income. The idea of stimulus checks was good, the execution was bad. Similar to how the government is gloating anoint sending out monthly child tax credits but can’t get returns processed so people can get their refunds.

smart

Here's a lesson in government taxes. You pay $1000 in taxes. They take a cut to pay for the person who receives the taxes, for the person who pays out the stimulus, the janitors to make the office nice, and for national security to protect the offices. Then, the $100 left over, they give as stimulus. In their minds they have created jobs and security as well as stimulated the economy by putting $100 into the pocket of a citizen (term used lightly). Now, if you took that $1000 and gave it out, you could help 10x the people, but you wouldn't need the government. And, beyond everything else, and no matter what else you have learned in any school, the government NEEDS to be needed. It's ultimate absolute prerogative that trumps all other priorities is for the government to be needed. If you didn't need the government, it wouldn't be the 10th of the size it is now, the expenditures would be exponentially cut. And it wouldn't have the power to crush your rights as it sees fit. That is why you MUST pay taxes. It's not about actually paying for stuff and helping the country out. It's so that can manage the flows of money and take their cut for administrative and national security costs. If it were about actually helping, they would give you a $1000 credit on your taxes as long as you showed proof you gave that $1000 as a stimulus to others. Then of $1000 given, $1000 would stimulate. But as it stands, of $1000 given, $100 stimulates. Because you need the government. * the rates and ratios are examples only, the amount they actually take out of your taxes for administrative and national security costs are much, much worse than illustrated. As well, I've grossly oversimplied the people involved in processing the tax and paying out stimulus; again it's an example only.

likefunny

The money can still be invested without it being owned by a rich dead guys kids. There’s no productive value to keeping wealth in families like that except to the degree it is necessary to encourage the original labor, after that it’s a negative and more ideal to design a system that draws it down.

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We are among the least tax burdened developed countries in the world, and our social safety net shows it. God forbid you have some empathy and perspective.

likesmartfunnyhelpfuluplifting

Ironically, some of the most happy people on earth pay the highest taxes. See Scandinavian counties. They are also highly respectful of each other as well, and spend quite awhile figuring out what they are good at and what they like to do.

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Wait til Biden’s new programs go through. You’ll be reminiscing about the days you only paid 20%…

likefunnysmart

Why would you have a kid in those circumstances? Seems like a pretty poor choice to me.

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Huh?

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likefunnyhelpful

By all means go ahead and create the “cancel social security, Medicare and the military” party. Actually I think some libertarian subsets have you covered. Also lol at a high earning first worlder thinking 20% is high. Maybe we can just switch to payroll taxes, if someone only see what’s in front of them this would probably solve the “problem”.

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Only 20%? As a 1099 I get hit with over 15% from FICA before Fed or State take their bite. I'm at about 40% after all deductions and expenses. That being said, is rather be taxed 40% on $150k than be taxed 20% on $40k... Paying high taxes means you are blessed to be an above average earner with an above average lifestyle. While I agree that there is a ton of government waste, I'll still take paying Haigh taxes on a great income over going back to when I paid 10% on a crap income.

likesmarthelpful

PwC6 Blessed because I was born into this country. Blessed because I was raised by a loving, supportive family. Blessed because I was given an above average IQ and the family expectations to do something with it. Blessed because I was raised with a middle class work ethic. Blessed because I met the right person at the right time as I was struggling and considering quitting. Blessed because I have an amazing, loving, happy, healthy family of my own. Blessed because I don't take anything for granted and appreciate all I have. Yes... blessed.

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We should just have a 10%-20% flat tax and be done with it. If the government can't operate on that, means the government is wasting too much money. We have an entire B4 industry wasting intelligent people on tax avoidance and compliance. Don't forget about the inflation tax as well. We have an illegitimate government spending way more than it has and can ever repay. The first step is to balance the budget, next is to pay down debt. Tax rates are irrelevant because all spending is taxation in the future and our spending rate is unsustainable.

likefunnysmart

I see there are a lot of people who never outgrew their college libertarian phase. A flat tax will literally never happen in this country. Its a bad idea politically for all parties and doesn’t have much intellectual merit. No need for a 50 comment thread debating it

likefunny

I like how people assumed if we paid more taxes everyone’s lives would be better. Like we won’t get to choose how the money is used. Sure thinking it helps others helps you sleep easier at night….but it’s probably going to Iran or other countries that hate us. Oh and we don’t audit how they use the funds.

likesmartfunny

Seriously, there doesn’t appear to be a first world country with the lower taxes that also provides similar median household and/or lower class quality of life. All of the counties ahead of the US have “socialism” as described by the GOP (a combo of higher tax rates and larger gov services including healthcare). They all seem pretty happy with that vs the US model too. In our defense, we have 330m people, which is basically the size of all the first world countries doing better combined. So that’s something to consider. It’s not like US is behind compared to Europe as a unit, just when you select Canada, New Zealand, Scandinavia etc to compare with. So I guess tripling down on Reagonomics could be your plan, but it seems to be a plan without precedent for success in the first world. Also it is one in which the last 40 year of evidence in the US doesn’t back its main claims (tax cuts pay for themselves, tax cuts on wealthy raise productivity, gov spending lowers it…).

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I find it interesting that no one actually provides arguments to the OP, and instead it's a string of ad hominem and whataboutism.

likesmartfunny

@OP tell us what you would rather have that date and federal taxes? A pay as you use system? And opt in/opt out of certain areas of funding? What’s your grand idea of spending your 20% GI on?

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OP, see below for what your federal taxes go towards, it was a pretty easy google search. What do you want to cut?

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likehelpfulsmartfunny

West Monroe there are 479,000 people in the Army, 332,000 in the Navy, 327,000 in the Air Force, and 186,000 in the Marines. Those numbers listed are just for the active members. If you add the The reservist of 1,029,000 To the total you ge 2,353,000 trained military personnel. I do realize that the reservist only make about $5000 a year but that still equates to an expense of 5,145,000,000, Also The Veterans Affairs has a separate budget from the military of Of 240 billion. If you add the military budget to the veteran affairs budget we are talking about spending $943 billion. Just to be clear I am not in favor of cutting the budget to veteran affairs as we owe that to the people who served our countries but, if we had a smaller army we would have less people to take care of after retirement. Is becoming a popular i

My tax professor in school pointed out that you should never feel bad because someone has to pay taxes because all that means is that they made money. I’ve never been sympathetic to complaints about it since.

likesmartfunny

People like Deloitte 9 love to play dumb because its easier to be contraian and believe something false (e.g. US taxes are too high) rather then simply looking it up. Here ya go: https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/how-do-us-taxes-compare-internationally#:~:text=Budget%20and%20Economy-,How%20do%20US%20taxes%20compare%20internationally%3F,average%20for%20other%20OECD%20countries.

likehelpful

You’re lucky to escape with only 20%. If you are making income in a Tier 1 city (e.g. NYC, SF, LA) you would be lucky to keep over 60% of your pay. But hey the military budget (and lack of a health insurance system) has got to come from somewhere amirite? 😉

likefunny

I am in MN. We are a high tax state, but one of the highest standards of living too. Not pro tax, incase you read it that way. Still, would rather be able to pay taxes then be broke and not paying taxes. I applied for a job in small town Texas and checked out real estate. A cheaper home than I had here paid more than 3x the property taxes! Had I gotten the job my total taxes would have increased. People need to realize that the government will get you one way or the other. Personally I think income tax should be the only tax. Sales tax should be illegal because I already paid tax on that money, plus you are disincentizing me on spending. Same thing for property taxes. “In conclusion may I please remind you it does not say R.S.V.P. on the Statue of Liberty. Thank you very much.” —Cher (Clueless)

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Lol 20% what a noob

likefunnyuplifting

Must be an intern. 🤣

likefunny

It is called wealth re-distribution. Liberals prefer taking from the hardest working people.

likefunny

Not at all… just saying rising the corporate ladder to become a CEO is not easy, dare I say hard. Involves a lot of personal sacrifice and long hours.

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I’m upset by how little we get in return for our taxes. I have no problem paying them, and I think I should pay more, but I want more in return. Why stimulus checks during a pandemic? Because paying less in taxes only helps those individuals with high income. The low income person paying very little on taxes doesn’t benefit as much as you think, and the person without a job wouldn’t benefit at all. It would only help higher income folks - the ones who arguably needed the help the least.

likesmarthelpful

We could get so much more in return for what we paid in taxes if loopholes were closed that allow giant corporations to register dummy addresses in tax exempt locations around the world and/or write off every last expense because it helps them accrue more capital. TL;DR The ones who should be paying most in taxes are the ones who most often cheat the system. And they do it legally, because the grifters have us hating our own government while they create new loopholes.

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I can’t get as worked up about this as you all are. My taxes every year are multiples of the annual median income in the US. Which means that after paying taxes I still have many many times that median income remaining. I’m doing fine.

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PEI1; as your salary goes up you need to zoom out to see what benefits you derive from taxes. Where I live they think low taxes is a virtue. But that’s only true for people not dialed into the nuances of quality of life, technological innovation, and overall global competitiveness. Having lived in a developing country, a high tax state, and a low tax state I can tell you that the low tax state has more in common with the developing country than the other way around. The biggest reason why people don’t understand this is because it’s easy to feel rich when living in a low tax state.

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20% taxes lol. Hope this person isn’t in tax.

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Like I said, 7.65 is unavoidable if W2, and double that if 1099. Yes there is an income cap on FICA, but if you're hitting that you're paying above 20% total. If you're in a 0 income tax state, then check your property taxes. Yes, you can S- Corp if you're 1099 to curb some, but generally the flow through is 15% fed still, so 20% total is LOW... unless you have 15 kids or some other huge deductions beyond the 24k base deduction, or have a teacher salary.

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I hate taxes. But I recognize we live in a society and part of that is collectively paying for things that benefit us all directly or indirectly. Government could be more efficient but our tax burden is pretty low compared to many other countries and I choose to look beyond what is simply best for me.

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Well said. Nobody likes taxes, but everyone benefits from what government provides.

likefunny

Maybe everyone needs to reconsider the way they have been voting!!! It’s not like they’re using our money wisely

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They may not cut them but they are not going to raise them either! I think the taxes that a lot of the class earners like myself pay are relatively fair

Keep voting socialists into office

likefunny

@D1 as if the rioters chanting “Hang Mike Pence” weren’t on loop that evening and through the following weeks.

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So, not only you Americans earn 5x times what a software developer earns in Europe, you also pay somewhere between 30% to 50% LESS taxes than us Europeans. That must be why you americans are the most joyfull and peaceful people on ear.... Uhm something doesn't add up

funnylikesmart

Considering that close to 70% of Americans are overweight or obese it’s difficult to compare medical outcomes and costs to other countries. People that need care in the US typically have other co-morbidities making it more expensive and more difficult to treat them.

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