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Because the kid is an affirmative obligation of the associate, whereas your flexibility is a convenience. As an attorney parent, I would much prefer to work straight through until 6:30-7 and then have my evening to myself, rather than leave at 5:15, get the kid settled by 6:30 and then work through dinner in order to log the same hours as my childless colleagues. Leaving to pick up the kid is a minimal accommodation; we have the same hours and fee realization requirements as you do.
Ok people, think hard: a child is a dependent. They depend on the parents. That’s why parents get the amazing privilege to run at 5pm to pick them up then feed them then burn the midnight oil. Childless people, don’t be thick. It’s a human person we’re talking about here. Taking care of their basic needs is not selfish, it’s basic human decency. It doesn’t take away anything from you, it’s not like the parents leave earlier to party! They do double day: care of the child and work. So be at ease, they’re actually busting their butts more than you.
Someone talked about their choice of having a child. Such a bitter comment! Yes, some people want children and you won’t be able to prevent them and there are lots of them. So let them leave earlier and log on later, as I pointed out it doesn’t take anything away from you. As someone else said, you too can say you need to leave early. Not everyone can afford a nanny btw, that’s why they go themselves. Childless people, if a law firm provides this basic “flexibility” to parents, think hard: that must really be because it’s something that can’t be denied, otherwise they’d deny it. People work hard, but they still can have a bit of a life like a baby. And it’s temporary: a few years then the children won’t need to be picked up.
You can do those things? In my experience parents get the time because they ask for it and treat it as non-negotiable (because it isn't). If you want to go do something you need to treat it as non-negotiable. If you are worried about the impact on your career and choose not to put your foot down, then it's negotiable. Only you will set your boundaries. But parents keep their boundaries because their children literally need them. I don't literally need to grab drinks with a friend on a Tuesday so usually I don't set a hard boundary. Just depends on your priorities really
If management does not view it non-negotiable and you don’t dare to leave the door, then it is negotiable. You think when I stuck my neck out and asked to leave early, I did not think about leaving the job?! Funny.
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Also.. I am a married woman who plans to have kids. My career is very important to me. Both my parents worked and they had a nanny for me. I think I have some empathy.
That being said, I’m not having kids until I leave biglaw. It’s too much. I don’t want that life. Choosing to have kids while you’re in a demanding job is a choice.
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A1, you could always freeze your eggs or adopt.
You’re blaming parents for your inability to set boundaries with more senior lawyers. That’s a you problem.
Because having kids and being am attorney is like having 3 full time jobs and everything is on fire.
This entire conversation is a good reflection of why so many of my female/parent colleagues have left law firm life.
I’m not sure this is a great solution. In my opinion, what we need to do is to find ways to make career and life fit together. I genuinely realize I don’t have the answers. But, now that I see the problem better, I think I’m a lot better at working with the people on my teams to make their personal lives work in a way that is consistent with being successful in their careers. No one did that when I was young and trying to raise a family. I’m determined to help the people around me be more successful in doing it than I was. Somehow, I think the first two steps is to discuss the issue with colleagues and to find ways that we can back up one another. The partners need to help by adding more support to a team and by better managing client expectations.
Same boat- no kids but sometimes I want to go get a haircut or have dinner with a friend. I used to just cancel plans but I’m tentatively asserting myself more (For context, I’m with this firm for over 4 years). It’s frustrating but I really think we need to start standing up for ourselves. If I’m really deep into something I probably won’t leave but sometimes I need to cut it off, go home, make dinner and log back on. It’s hard enough maintaining an apartment cooking and cleaning for myself and my partner (who is also an attorney). If I don’t assert myself now what hope do I have if/when I have kids?
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I used to make up family-sounding obligations, like a big dinner or weekend reunion or whatever, to justify taking time completely away from work. Now I just say "I have to be somewhere at 7," or "I can't do it this weekend" and let that be my answer. Get your work done and no one should care when you're available - obviously there are emergencies where you just have to deal, but those apply to people with families too. I have a great firm that respects associate time outside of work regardless of kids - they do exist!
This is all nonsense that has nothing to do with parenting and everything to do with drawing boundaries. OP, chances are your firm is making allowances for parents to avoid losing them to firms that are less cutthroat. Unless they’re billing as much as their childless counterparts (you), they’re not reaping any benefits their counterparts are not. Remember, partnership is discretionary.
“I have a commitment from 6-9.” “Appreciate you letting me know.”
I had an appointment from 3-5 today, could have been a therapist, a haircut, meeting with opposing counsel, job interview, or a massage. You either trust me to have appropriate judgement or you don’t, and if you don’t then I likely ought not be working on your stuff.
Leave when you need to leave. Don’t over-explain. Don’t blame other people because you’re worried about your explanation. Just leave and be accessible by phone or email.
I did this all the time as an associate before kids. I know do it as an associate all the time with kids. The real question is does the firm want to keep you. If they like you, they will accommodate you, if they don't they will let you go. Less availability will make it much harder to make partner or be promoted (kids or no). So that is something you should consider.
Also, if you don't understand the difference that taking care of kids is more essential than catching a work out class (and is more highly valued by society (as it should be)) than I don't think there is any helping you.
As another associate said - parents protect parents bc they know they all need that extra help/time/forgiveness accommodation.
And, it is an unpopular opinion, but yes, they are getting more accommodation bc of their choices. Your life and relationship w your partner is just as important/valid as their relationship w their kids.
Unfortunately, it’s the way of life though. If you do have a set thing from 530-630, I’d just try putting it into your calendar and saying - I committed to this every day from 530-630. If it’s an emergency, I will handle but otherwise, happy to log back on after 9.
You may get judged and you may not be the star associate. But, that is the same w associates w kids. No one says it but the one leaving all the time isn’t first in line for partnership unless they have that great of a relationship w the head partner.
*Asks summer associate to write a brief memo summarizing the arguments made in this thread.
Kids are stinky
100 percent agree with this. I was once told by a senior associate that my time mattered less because I didn’t have kids. If you choose to have children that’s wonderful, but it doesn’t make your time less valuable than those who choose other life pursuits.
EVERYONE on this thread needs to watch the sex and the city episode “A Woman’s Right to Her Shoes”
I am married without kids. I have used the excuse of my imaginary nieces and nephews when necessary to get the same flexibility as my colleagues with children.
I’m a little surprised with all the responses that say “childcare isn’t a choice.”
What did y’all’s child fall out of the sky? Pretty sure y’all chose to have a kid, knowing you’d have to care for it. It’s a choice. It’s just not one we all made.
I’m not saying you shouldn’t be afforded flexibility to care for your child — you should. But it definitely is a choice.
That’s a stupid analogy. Parenthood is a choice that law firms SUPPORT. That’s why parents are given (limited) flexibility. Because a critical mass of law firm’s most valuable attorneys are parents, as opposed to drunk drivers. As you get more senior and more experienced, more of your attorneys are going to be parents. So, yes, you let them pick their kids up while still continuing to do just as much work as childless colleagues.
Seems like this is more a problem with your firm and possibly your ability to say no than the parents themselves. When I was a young associate, I didn't feel like I could say no. When the partner said at 6.30pm (when I was leaving and had plans) "hey, I need this tonight", I canceled my plans and finished the work. With more experience, I was better able to assess what actually was urgent and how I could set boundaries. Have you tried just putting your foot down about when you need to leave and then when you log back in later emailing (hopefully something substantive or purposeful) just to show you're doing the work? It seems like if you are billing at your minimum and making sure your meeting deadlines and doing good work, it shouldn't matter where or when it's done. At my current firm, which is a very large firm, we have attorneys with and without kids/elderly parents/dogs coming in and leaving whenever they want (if they even come in at all). At the end of the month, they're all exceeding their minimum billables so their "face time" doesn't matter.
P5 is spot on. As we are having discussions on remote working, this thread makes me wonder what firm OP works at. Pandemic makes us all realize the value of flexibility and that same quality work can be done wherever and whenever. It is a matter of collaboration and not accommodation. It is also a matter of communication. Seamless teamwork can be achieved without two persons being at the firm at the same time, as long as we stand to be team players. The same flexibility can feed to non-parent lawyers for non-kid reasons. To blame the lack of flexibility and the inability to set boundaries to parent lawyers is appalling. Moreover, this “blame” eventually goes to lawyer moms, who unfortunately bear disproportionally more family responsibility than lawyer dads.
Because some partners were parents once too and empathize that associates with kids work two jobs both of which are necessary and are adding value because unlike your rescue dog, our kids will grow up to contribute to the social security trust fund from which you will benefit one day
Uhmmm because your colleague has a child?
It may look like wiggle room but there is a post office grind you don’t see. If an associate isn’t hitting the billable hrs they are out either way