IWD - real talk, is it possible to have an honest discussion on gender at work?

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I have no kids, husband and I both work for EY. We are the same level, same years of experience and I have more education (JD, LLM), he has a BA. We started at the same level and salary in the same subservience line, same year. Over the years our reviews have been almost the same (all 4s except for two years - 4 for him,5 for me and then 5 for him and 4 for me). My husband now makes 40k more per year than I do.

It's been interesting to watch this happen and to try and figure out why...Seems raises are a bit arbitrary or something...

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@AA1 having women tell you their experiences and struggles in the workplace and then having you, a white male, seemingly discard such experiences and tell them that what they're experiencing isn't real (which you do with comments like "why are you even putting up with that") makes you a huge dick.

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Nope. As soon as you start talking about , people will roll their eyes at you (internally).

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^Refuse to acknowledge that things may not be fair for women. Instead flips it to some problem with the woman for staying at that job.

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It seems to me like most (if not all) people here are in agreement that men and women should be equal. Equal in opportunities and pay and what not. The disagreement is over whether or not women and men are currently equal (in the context of workplaces). When you have a group of women saying they are not yet equal, and you have a few vocal men saying YES YOU ARE, it's not helpful. A male who thinks men and women are already equal should stop and think for a minute about how it's possible that they don't see reality the same way a historically discriminated against group does.. empathize.. and make a commitment to try and show to his colleagues how there is equality. And when anecdotes are presented that highlight an inequality, respond with a disgust for a system that discriminates against women as opposed to insinuating that the women is at fault for not having quit.

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"honest discussion on gender" = complaining eh? Nice BDO1. You've already assumed the view point of the other person without even listening. That's why we can't discuss these things. You're going to see that in just about every discussion, except at work you're expected to pretend like the conversation never happened once it's over.

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@BDO1 I think everyone knows the path to partner is hard regardless of gender race etc. no one is questioning that. But if you want tears for the plight of the working white man, while on a feed discussing gender (and by default, the struggles that working women face) you're gonna be searching for a long time.

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^I think the point is that there are definitely struggles that women face in the workplace that are far too often ignored and swept under the rug because of attitudes like yours.

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And why is child raising assumed to be a woman's responsibility?

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@EY1. First real argument I have seen. You have a problem, not these other wannabes. I wonder why you waited 4 years and just keep letting it happen. 40k swing at the same level is not right.

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@AA1 why are you so mad, bro?

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Wow I'm sorry I said anything..The attacks and implications that what I said is not true hurts. I really love my job at the firm, I've been with EY 17 years. I've traveled and lived all over the world (London, Paris, Sydney, Singapore, Tokyo, etc) and am incredibly appreciative for that. The pay discrepancy is something my counselor is aware of, my people consultant is aware of, and there is not that much that either one of them can do. Short of taking legal action, it is what it is. Oh and btw one of the big contributors to the discrepancy, when we relocated to a high cost location (for personal reasons) the firm gave us both market adjustments...I got a 5% adjustment the year we moved and my husband got a 10% increase the next year...My counselor and PC had no good explanation for this either...

I posted this to demonstrate that discrepancies can occurr even when you don't have maternity leave in the equation.

Is this a generational thing or is it just that there are some really rude people on FB??

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Accounting is 61% women, where's the equality??

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BDO1 your first couple comments made you sound like the person who says I'm not racist, I have a black friend. Unfortunately the bulk of child raising and care is still left to women. US rate of births is falling in a very real way. Shouldn't PA and all high energy/stress jobs be made more flexible/balanced to at least try to have both? I'm sure male partners would also like to see their kids grow up instead of signing off on 1065s

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What PA level even has a 40k salary band? Senior manager?

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My male co-worker said his prior firm discriminated against all the women there - he could see it at senior level all the way up. just because it doesn't happen at your firm doesn't mean it doesn't happen

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^Right that's the point. That companies should be taking active steps to address these issues, so that women don't have to put themselves out trying to resolve it themselves.

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Nailed it^ elephant in room. If you take time off for personal reasons and others pass you up, it shouldn't be a problem

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It's not a woman's responsibility. It's their decision. If you want to go through pregnancies and raising small children while being on the partner track then more power to you. But it's very hard and most women decide it's not worth the effort. It's not sexism... it's reality. The vast majority of men also quit trying for PA partner for a lot of reasons as well.

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Exactly AA1. Women and minorities think every white man just gets a free pass to partner. It takes hard work and isn't for everyone.

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