Related Posts
best beard and body trimmers?
Has anyone tried this drink called recess?
How to prepare to become program manager
This might be my new daily. 36mm is so comfy.
Additional Posts in Women in Law
New to Fishbowl?
Download the Fishbowl app to
unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.
unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.
Yep. This is absolutely a thing and it’s very sad.
I’m an attractive female and it’s even worse, I think. I don’t have any advice other than to leave, unfortunately.
Oh wow, it was the opposite in my firm! Attractive female lawyers get better evaluation because of "professionalism" or something to that effect. Less attractive associates get lower ratings and low key subtle suggestions to wear more make up.
Just want to note that they aren’t all like this. The women partners I work for are the best and so wonderful to work for even when the actual work and hours suck.
Pro
No ofcourse not, i am glad to know there will be some female partner i work with in my career who aren’t like this.
Yes, I agree. They also treat male associates better as well (better assignments and engagements). Don't know any solution for that unfortunately.
Pro
Yes, that too. It’s just getting to me and totally spoils my morale and demotivates me.
Try to avoid working with them or get out. Male associates in my female-led group get assignments earlier in the week, earlier in the day, with more opportunities for client interaction, and with more recognition. The female partners even defer to the male associates more than each other. The best part of my experience here was deciding not to stay.
Yes, you need to get out. I’ve seen this scenario in adjacent practice groups. Sadly, some women get competitive or jealous of other women when we should be uniting! And some women have even (subconsciously?) adopted the sexist patriarchal views that garner male colleagues more accolades than women when they perform and more ‘benefit of the doubt’ when they don’t. (For the record, i was never an outspoken feminist until i saw all the sexism in corporate America first hand!)
Implicit gender bias is present in all of us... not just men. As women, sometimes we are hardest on members of our own protected class, either when they don’t conform to stereotypes or if they seem like competition for scarce resources like opportunities or acceptance. A misogynistic culture facilitates this kind of behavior or even rewards it. That said, a lot of women have done the (often uncomfortable) work of considering their own role and behaviors: these are the women that empower other women. Find them, support them, and be supported by them.
Girl, female associates are the worst sometimes. Here why, instead of telling you they have a problem/annoyance they go to male associates or male partners which blows everything out of proportion.
Ladies, PLEASE be direct if you have an issue. Try to resolve it with each other instead of causing problems. I can’t stress this enough it would save everyone a lot of headaches.
 Great point
I’ve seen this go both ways. Feel like some female partners / women in positions of power are harder on other women because it was hard for them. Kinda like hazing. Which sucks. I’ve seen it and dealt with it. Gets easier to address as you get more senior. You’ve got choices and don’t have to stay. No sense in staying if you’re miserable. There are wonderful women out there who will support you and work with you and you can tell the difference immediately. You can stop this cycle. I work to do this with everyone I work with. Work is hard. There’s no reason to make it worse.
100% agree with this-female attorneys have a bigger chip on their shoulder because of everything they went though to make it in the boy’s club, and they think younger female attorneys should have to go through the same suffering
I think there is sometimes an “I had to pay my dues” mentality. I always wondered why more female partners and senior associates do not assume a mentoring role since they have experienced how hard it can be for female attorneys.
A sr female attorney I thought was a mentor straight up made this “pay dues” argument against me in a meeting with my GC about whether to give me a raise... sucks to always be suspicious of people but really have to look out for them and stay far away.
No fortunately I haven’t had that experience with female partners. However during OCI I did not get a single call back from female screeners.
Same
Yes! But, seriously, why is it like this? There are female partners at my firm that I truly idolize career wise. But, when it comes to work product, often more lenient with male colleagues. In regard to deadlines, way more generous. Sometimes even go insofar to provide someone encouraging comments and thank you emails. What happened to our girls club, women empowering women, and all the jazz?
At my office, it has become clear to me over time which partners prefer working with men and which partners prefer working with women. It’s taken time (I’m talking 6 years and a change in practice) but I’ve managed to “find my tribe”. I’ve been in your position and it sucks. Hang in there!
Omg. You have my sympathy. After having two horrible female bosses I get the feeling. My former bosses didn’t treat one gender better but they had other issues: laziness, taking easy cases and giving the attorneys that weren’t their friends that hard cases, differences in pay based on who is their friend etc. I finally got out and I couldn’t be happier at my current place. It’s never fun working in a toxic work environment.
This type of “queen bee” complaining post comes up in this bowl about once every week or two. It kind of sucks that a male hiring partner could wander in here and have their outmoded suspicion that women aren’t good leaders/partners confirmed. There are very unpleasant female colleagues, absolutely. But also ask yourself whether you would feel bullied if a male partner said the same thing to you. My observation is that both men AND women have a hard time taking direct criticism and direction from women, and both women and men tend to take it MUCH more personally when it comes from a woman. Trying to hit the perfect tone while being direct is truly exhausting, so please try to cut your women colleagues some slack. The type of women who had to throw elbows to make it to senior positions are not going to coddle you, and the repetitious generalizing in these posts is anything but championing women. Nothing against this specific poster—there are many of these posts.
Totally fair A10, and targets the real issues here. We can and should strive to be better than those before us & in the meantime, stay as objective and un-petty as we can. Cheers!
Just here to empathize with you OP. Not only does the female partner I work for constantly bully me, but I can’t get away from her because she hired me; like you, I’m trapped.
To make it worse, her husband works in the practice group as well and assigns me work occasionally. Whenever I do a good job for him and get compliments, like clockwork she rips up my work product and insults me. Hard NOT to think there’s petty jealousy at play. I’m looking for an exit ASAP and hope you find a place that treats you better with all the respect you deserve.
This happened with me from the only female partner at my firm for the first 3 years I was there. I stuck it out, kept my head down, and kept turning in good work. She eventually came around and we’re now good friends. I think that from her perspective, she was being especially hard on me in order to make me the best. It really sucked at the time, and I feel for you. I don’t think you should let this woman push you out of your firm if you really like it there though.
I feel the opposite at my firm. I’m in a very bro-y area, PE m&a, and the women are awesome. Mid levels will give me a call to say basically this guy will try to pawn work off in you and then get the credit for it, don’t put up with that. Or, these clients are good but this particular client will go out of their way to respond to the (less involved) guy over by you. This does exist
Please excuse the typos I also get very little sleep
My group in big law is like 85% female (incl. partners) and I love it!! No unnecessary strong male egos here and the female partners are awesome
It’s defensiveness. We older women have been knocked around so to speak by old male partners for a while passed over or rejected. Doesn’t make it right to treat others poorly but could be a defense mechanism.
It’s understandable: the profession was incredibly hard on all of you. How can younger women help ease this defensiveness? So many of us admire the strength of the women that before us, even when they sometimes pass down the pain. Any ideas on what can help in situations like this?
Very well put A8