{ "media_type": "text", "post_content": "Just left a 1h+ long WhatsApp debate (in a group chat) with a male mutual friend who insists that rape culture doesn't exist in US/Canada; \"men attack men too, what about us\"... [Continued>>>]", "post_id": "5bbe4bd9363e650017834be9", "reply_count": 13, "vote_count": 4, "bowl_id": "5976222cab932800101a9ca4", "bowl_name": "Women in Advertising", "feed_type": "bowl" }

Just left a 1h+ long WhatsApp debate (in a group chat) with a male mutual friend who insists that rape culture doesn't exist in US/Canada; "men attack men too, what about us"... [Continued>>>]

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You kick those nimrods to the curb psychologically and don’t engage with them that way. Not worth the time and energy. NEXT.

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Here’s what I do: limit my engagement with those people, but engage as long as I can with specific, concrete ways these things have impacted me. Then I use an analogy to get them to consider it from a different perspective. My two cents: you were talking to a man who has done something he knows he should be concerned about.

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Oh nooooooo ugh. I second CD1, ain’t no one got time/emotional energy for that. I used to think I did but realized that no one’s mind is ever changed on the internet (or via WhatsApp chat for that matter). And in person, if there isn’t a space for mutual respect and understanding, it’s futile too and better just to walk away (learned that from Christmas with my bf’s family 🙄)

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Delete him.

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And this is why I think empathy should be an elementary school class

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Oh yeah, forgot to mention that it was a group chat of mostly females. Got read receipts with almost all of them, and none of them said a single word to back me up. Love it!! /s 🙂

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Oh, wait, group chat full of women, I didn’t catch that. Um, leave is my best advice. Women’s roles HAVE been redefined. Men are failing to keep up. My take on women like that is that they don’t want to own their power.

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That it's not fair that men's career get destroyed when women accuse them of sexual assault; that if masculinity needs to be redefined, then women should be redefined too; that not leaving a drink unattended and not renting an apartment on the ground floor is "mindful of safety" and not related to rape culture; etc etc. I mean, I can just go on. 🙃 How does everyone deal with mutual friends like these?

No no no no no no no no nooooooooooo.

How would you redefine femininity? I'm gonna be sorry I asked, but srsly?

Thanks for all the advice! I spent the past day or so basically trying to cool down and not think about the debate too much. I need come back to this obviously with a cooler head.

I mean I would be frustrated no one else spoke up but I also totally get it, they might not have the mental or emotional energy to try to reason with someone who was clearly being misogynistic. As far as what to say in situations like that, while we shouldn't have to educate men on things they could Google, I have some thoughts/resources: Statistics for instances of rape allegations are actually lower than other types of crime. His point about men being attacked is true, but the sobering fact is men are more likely to be raped than they are to be falsely accused of rape: http://www.chicagotribune.com/lifestyles/ct-life-false-rape-allegations-20181011-story.html And as a tweet I read once pointed out (the tweet said it better but I can't find it), if you only bring up male rape victims in instances like this guy did, you are not advocating for male victims, you are using them to silence women. It's a derailment tactic and really he should be ashamed to use male victims as props in this way. You could also point out that him lamenting a man's "ruined" career when a woman says she was raped is in and of itself an example of rape culture. So... guess it is real after all. This link has a list of rape culture examples, and he can't in good faith deny these things happen: http://www.wavaw.ca/rape-culture-is-real-and-yes-weve-had-enough/ Lastly, arguments like his always bring to mind this collage by Laura Colleluori, "Assault Allegations Ruining Men's Careers." Ffs you can be accused of rape and still get elected president...

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