{ "media_type": "text", "post_content": "Let's start an argument. Working 100% remote absolutely downgrades your interpersonal relationships with coworkers, execs, and clients while also keeping you within your own bubble of assigned areas and not allowing you to hear conversations about other areas to develop you further. We need to be back in the office 3-4 days a week for our own best interest. Yes we've proven we can do audits virtually, but our staff have suffered tremendously in their development these past 2 years.", "post_id": "6161ba583741ec002580c809", "reply_count": 180, "vote_count": 191, "bowl_id": "564a5cdb94887803001dd07c", "bowl_name": "Accounting", "feed_type": "crowd" }
null

Let's start an argument. Working 100% remote absolutely downgrades your interpersonal relationships with coworkers, execs, and clients while also keeping you within your own bubble of assigned areas and not allowing you to hear conversations about other areas to develop you further. We need to be back in the office 3-4 days a week for our own best interest. Yes we've proven we can do audits virtually, but our staff have suffered tremendously in their development these past 2 years.

likefunnysmarthelpfuluplifting
Posting as :
works at
You are currently posting as works at
Highlighted IconHIGHLIGHTED

I flourished as a transplant while working remote. All my associates prefer WFH and are have done well in the past year. We have random 30 mins of catch time during busy season where we talk random crap. We have a phone group where we talk about random crap about the firm and other stuff we prefer to keep out the firm’s communication systems.

I do the same with my directors and partners. I don’t need to see them face to face to have good communication and build relationships. We book for dinners every once in a while.

It’s the direction the firms are moving to whether you like it or not. And it will be the expectation by most if not all new associates in the future (that they can work remote for most of the time). If you’re one who refuse to adapt to the new model and task everyone to go in most of the time then it will be your own relationships and work reputation that will eventually suffer. On the other hand, my relationships outside of work also greatly improved as I find time to see my friends and family and the gym again (no 1-hr one-way commute and getting ready)

Work & life balance not worklife balance.

likesmart

Working remotely also removes my commute time entirely allowing me to both be more available to work and also have more time to recover from work.

Further, it allows me to pick up my children from school rather than both pay for after care and have to make an additional stop to pick them up on the way home, which is, for me, one of the few perks left about working in public accounting. Considering I'm definitely underpaid, this is the main reason I haven't already left.

My interpersonal skills are fine.

That said, I am a manager and I agree that staff and seniors definitely need more time together to help foster a relationship with each other and build the staff's connection to the firm. Our biggest issue is staff recruiting and retention and without developing deeper relationships with the staff who come in, we are reducing their incentive to remain here with the recruiters inevitably come calling.

like

Op BDO 1.

It’s time for you to go get that 30%+ raise and progress in your career.

Unless you are in a niche or pt, I’d consider leaving and see what is out there.
You can make it and be way better off.

Recent IconRecent

Ok Boomer.

likefunnyhelpfulsmart

Ok someone who wants to just get by

like

I would argue with you. I love to argue. But the only thing I can say is that I agree. You’ll get young, inexperienced people come here to call you a boomer or argue that they know better with their 1 year in the office and 2 years working remotely, but they are clueless to how clueless they are. They will all start complaining when the ones in the office develop faster and get more interesting jobs with more complex and challenging things to do.

likesmarthelpfulfunny

Good response Senior Director 1 - I agree with what you're saying. I'm not saying nothing was learned or there has been no skill development at all in the past few years, but the pace of development is slower. The "they are clueless as to how clueless they are" comment is valid in most cases. Perhaps some of these individuals are content topping out in a mid level position? Not saying it's impossible to get further than that working 100% remote for an entire career, but I still believe the people with in-person experiences will have the advantage over the long haul.

like

Just to argue, any negative affects to development at work would be offset by benefits in personal life. The debits always equal the credits.

likesmart

Honestly when I was staff and moving up, I noticed that there were a lot of divorced people at the top. Thinking it is because we sacrifice a lot of our awake hours for work. Wonder with this remote work lifestyle if that would actually improve our personal relationships at home and thus have happier workers overall

like

If you can’t develop relationships remotely you got no game 🤷🏿‍♂️

like

I’ve made more connections and worked with more people across the region during remote work. When we were in the office I’d mainly just work with the local team, which stunted my growth. But I also do a good job at being on camera, reaching out, and checking in on people. I feel like this is easier to do remote where I can have one on one conversations easier. In the office we had an open floor plan which made it awkward to have one on one conversations unless you were magically able to duck into a free office. Now I get to work with people I like.

like

I think 1-2 days a week makes sense for staff and their supervising seniors.

like

Maybe that’s the bigger problem. One size doesn’t fit all.

I remember our audit teams used to struggle to figure out flexibility and all I could do was laugh when they said flexibility was that they would all get to leave at 6 on Thursday or the entire team would work together in the office on Tuesdays. They thought I was nuts when I said my people worked where they wanted or it was most efficient and that I didn’t give a damn if someone left for a dr appointment or a contractor at the house during the day as long as work still got done.

like

Whether you’re a staff in the office or in a virtual environment, it’s still on the persons leading those conversations (which you are saying the staff are missing out on remotely) to include the staff in those conversations. There’s no guarantee that a staff in the office would be included in those conversations. In my experience of both in person and remote work, I’ve rarely been included in anything outside of the work I’ve been assigned. And why would I? Budgets and realization requirements make it so that someone not staffed on an engagement can’t really be included. I think we have so many other things related to developing staff aside from this in-person vs. remote argument that keeps being hashed out.

like

@BDO4 yes I’m in audit. A lot of our tax people never worked at the client site anyway so you are probably correct that it’s more relevant in audit. I’m not at all opposed to a hybrid approach going forward but for audit I do think it’s important to spend some time on site. Staff who started during the pandemic definitely aren’t as developed as the groups before them and they don’t know what they don’t know.

My life has improved so much working remote. Things are way better when I’m not arbitrarily pent up in an office for 12 hours a day

likeupliftingsmarthelpful

This 1000% if it was not for wfh I would have been outta here. I recognize we are all different but this works for me

What if you work in a non client facing role lie tax and know what you are doing. Some people have families at home so need to be home to take care of the kids. Times are changing and there i think there can be better ways to develop staff

likefunny

How is the world is tax not client facing? Whose returns are you filing anyways?

like

I’m in a different industry now, but it has been about 1 year and 7 months since Covid began. The question you should ask is how has the workplace failed to adapt to make working from home a better experience vs “muh camaraderie”.

The staff coming in now have all been raised where an internet presence is very common. Being apart of that generation I’ve never had issues socializing or developing relationships online due to it being common for most of my life. I see the older workforce if anything struggling to develop since they did not have the same exposure to the internet as the younger generations do today.

I personally think remote for public accounting is here to stay because who the hell wants to be in an office til 2 AM anymore? For most individuals I have talked to the line is much more blurrier with how late they work since the separation is much harder for them now.

I personally can’t believe that public accountants would want to go back into the office at this point. At least at home you can have the illusion of having a life

likefunny

If what you say is true why is it that literally every staff I talk to tells me they want to spend a significant amount of time in office? Gen Z and younger millennials are COMFORTABLE online but that doesn’t mean they want to spend their whole career never meeting the people they work with.

like

#1) it's a debate not an argument. #2) if remote work is a failure, then why are so many companies permanently allowing it (e.g. PwC). 3) why are corporate profits at an all time if WFH is such a failure? 4) there's more than one way to obtain interpersonal skills, it's not something that you only learn in an office setting, why not let people chose what works best for them?

likesmart

P1 - PwC had fully remote roles PreCOVID so I suspect we will have them long after. I think June 2022 is to allow them to reassess and see if they need more at the client site then remote. The days of teams being on site 5 days week for weeks on end are over for many if not most of our clients.

like

These are the same people that used to print their emails out to read them

Post Photo
likefunny

I thought this was serious for a second until I saw the word macro being used lol

funny

Agreed, especially for the younger folks. I get that I’d already established and happy with where you are then yea- staying home makes 100% perfect sense, but for all the newbies we aren’t learning anything not getting to know anyone we work with outside of ‘work’

like

From a developmental perspective, shouldn’t management also be more transparent and communicative from their end? Why does it just have to be yourself figuring it out?

As for developing relationships, it can work remotely but you have to put more of yourself out there compared to in person. You still have to make the effort, whether remote or in-person. You are more likely to end up having random conversations in person (hence the push for more open, collaborative spaces in offices), but it’s not like you can’t do it remotely. People just tend not to reach out as much when remote, which I think is because people don’t want to disturb others.

Not saying you’re completely wrong, but I don’t think it’s a 100% downgrade. It just means you have to put more effort into reaching out, whether you’re at the top or the bottom. It’s a two-way street.

likefunny

lmao at “quick promotions and big raises they were the norm in PA before”

like

It’s probably right but a lot of people really don’t care because they honestly like being an individual contributor and they finally feel comfortable stepping back a bit and focusing on other areas of their lives

like

Things evolve. I have to believe that if the firm and team wants to figure out how to train and nurture staff remotely while also building relationships, they will figure it out. Maybe it’s easier in person but don’t let’s us pretend like it’s totally impossible in a remote scenario. Just like 3-5 years ago it’s would considered impossible to complete an audit remotely. Things are evolving, people priority are changing, if the firm wants to change and evolve too they can.

likesmarthelpful

True. Maybe people aren’t developing in the traditional sense but they are definitely developing and adapting to the new structure.

Just because it looks different doesn’t mean it’s wrong

likesmart

If I'm just being honest, this generation lacks social skills anyways. It's not just covid.

funnylikesmart

Agree that 100% is not ideal. Disagree that we need to be back 3-4 days a week. You can build relationships with coworkers execs and clients coming in 1-2 days a week. Just focus on building relationships and limiting unnecessary meetings during those days.

like

What if I don’t actually care about the client enough to sacrifice my personal life and just want to earn a paycheck to survive?

like

You need to go back to office 3-4 days… I don’t.

like

Related Posts

Any other reason for having a Roth IRA + traditional 401k other than hedging against unknown future tax rates?

like

God bless leaders who let you leave the client a day early to beat the hurricane related flight switching madness. You da real champs

likeuplifting

28 yo 100k saved ex-401k

Doing it right or be more aggressive?

like

Ladies, your opinions please - would to wear this jumpsuit to the office (firm, not client) on a Friday? We have a casual dress code. Thanks in advance 🙏

Post Photo
like

If you’re promoted to a long term interim position, do you add the term “interim” to your email signature/LinkedIn title? My boss is moving into a 4 year project and I’m replacing her, they aren’t hiring for the role so it’s not “interim” in terms of I have it until they hire someone else. Advice is appreciated, I can’t find the proper etiquette in my google research!

like

Living at home to save money and just got staffed in NYC (where most of my friends work/live) with hotels and meals expensed! Finally a project that IMPROVES my social life!

like

Does anyone work part-time/reduced hours? If so, willing to share compensation numbers? I’m in a position to do so and very happy about that but unsure what to ask for in terms of $$. South FL, family law. Thanks!

like

I inherited a project at my agency with a production co already attached. I had them book a crew member we needed and now they ghosted him on payment and I’m chasing them to pay him. WTF people suck.

like

At what point do you make the decision to roll off a project? How feasible is it to leave your project as a first year analyst if it’s truly a poor fit?

like
like

Does anyone sign their emails at the end with their initials of their first and last name? I'm not sure how I feel about that, I've noticed quite a lot of people in the firm and at the client who do.

like

Anyone at tech-focused firms willing to connect/make intros into operations teams for potential roles?

I'm AP level digital expert with experience on multiple commercial diligences and the usual consulting transformation work. Looking for an ops role which allows me to 1) spend majority of time in ops owning and leading customer and product transformations and 2) spend more consistent 25-30% of time as deal side expert on cloud and AI enterprise SaaS.

like

Good or bad idea to max out your 401k the year before applying? Yes, i know it is generally a good investment. But does it impact one's EFC? It lowers adjusted gross income but is there an impact?

like

Has anyone asked for a promotion recently? I know in these times of layoffs and pay cuts it’s hard, but i have really stepped up in my role recently. I would love to hear anyone’s experience in starting the conversation. Any advice would be extremely helpful!

like

DELOITTE 🐟what's the salary range for Manager under Deloitte Global ? It's a non client facing and WFH role ..7 YOE (industry) and MS Degree + does Global pays joining bonus? If yes, how much?

like

Any openings for Project Manager or Senior Project Manager with good experience on Agile as well. Thanks.
YOE 13
Location Noida preferably or WFA type
FYI serving notice period.. 2 month remaining

like

Hi, I’m looking to intern/volunteer/freelance WFH; My background is in Communication and Digital Media: I also can assist you with admin tasks. FYI I speak Spanish, in case you need to translate docs.

like

How do you all deal with the feeling of "if I dont do this it will never get done"? I'm getting slammed on my current project. I've raised it to my manager but that hasn't helped changed the workload

like

I've been dreaming of visiting Italy forever. I feel like COVID-19 has affected so many areas of our lives, but I will not be ready to fly overseas for an eternity. What about you?

like

My client is looking for video editors, digital designers (UX Designer) , and Mechanical Artist.

like

Additional Posts

Is the "benchmark by design" survey part of partnership track?

like

Hope everyone in Cincinnati is safe!

like

Best admissions consulting firm? I’m in NYc if there’s anything local that’s great

like

In the process of onboarding within a consulting role. Job posting listed no on call, current state is no on call. I just messaged the recruiter to double verify and she stated there currently is no on call but they are in discussions with the hospital to share call with the consultants. How should this effect pay if this decision is made now after I accepted the offer with the understanding there was no on call. Should there be additional on call pay? I can guarantee the company will charge $

like

What are people's thoughts on "starting over" with regard to being a bit older and having kiddos?

My partner and I met 3 yrs ago, we're 42 and 44. We both have one child from our previous relationships, his is 19 and mine is 13. We are thinking about having one together but not sure.

Benefits, drawbacks, etc. Anyone have thoughts or experiences to share?

like

How do I break in to the film business? Or, branded
Films?

like

Can I tell ibm to move my doj ahead do they accept it?

like

Rent money - future #np

like

Any other managers out there who are also moms? What kind of scheduling works for you in busy season?

like

Is a 9.5 L offer from Ey for 3 yr experienced good? Or did I make mistake by not negotiating as I had similar offer from TCS too.

like

Are PE/hedge funds firms considered more prestigious than FAANG?

like

Does anyone have advice for generating leads/client acquisition? i’m starting my own law firm.

For C-Suite positions, would you go into compensation package renegotiations with your current employer with the intention of getting a larger salary or a larger bonus?

like

Hello fishes!

I am new here. Has anyone ever regretted quitting a growing/promising startup?

like

Best boots for NYC winter?

What are the kind offers ppl have received lately (in the last 3months)? And in which industry?
Bored of my job but don’t know if this is the market to quit especially since I am on a visa in US

like

Overheard guy at the gate on the phone talking about how he rolled off last minute on a project today. I turn back and see this guy looks like a mess. Perception matters kid. God damn wrinkly clothes.

like

I think I need to stop working. I’ve known I want to retire early (45), but I’m only 28. Now I make 135k. I can stick it out if I have to but I don’t want to. I know I have 4m coming in a trust in ~20 years, I own my apt, and have ~$600k in investments, 40k in cash. I want to have 2 kids to not have to struggle (I plan to help pay for school but not all of it if I can’t). I definitely need to keep working, right? What would you do?

likefunnyhelpful

Can anyone share leave policy in IBM GBS?

like

New to Fishbowl?

Download the Fishbowl app to
unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.
Download Fishbowl to see what others are saying
That was just a preview…
Sign Up to see all discussions
  • Discover what it’s like to work at companies from real professionals
  • Get candid advice from people in your field in a safe space
  • Chat and network with other professionals in your field
Sign up in seconds to unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.

Already a user?
Login here

Share

Embed this post

Copy and paste embed code on your site

Preview

Download the Fishbowl app

For account settings, visit Fishbowl on Desktop Browser or

General

Legal