null
Related Posts
Additional Posts
Hope everyone in Cincinnati is safe!
Conversation Starter
Rent money - future #np
Conversation Starter
Can anyone share leave policy in IBM GBS?
New to Fishbowl?
Download the Fishbowl app to
unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.
unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.
Chief
I flourished as a transplant while working remote. All my associates prefer WFH and are have done well in the past year. We have random 30 mins of catch time during busy season where we talk random crap. We have a phone group where we talk about random crap about the firm and other stuff we prefer to keep out the firm’s communication systems.
I do the same with my directors and partners. I don’t need to see them face to face to have good communication and build relationships. We book for dinners every once in a while.
It’s the direction the firms are moving to whether you like it or not. And it will be the expectation by most if not all new associates in the future (that they can work remote for most of the time). If you’re one who refuse to adapt to the new model and task everyone to go in most of the time then it will be your own relationships and work reputation that will eventually suffer. On the other hand, my relationships outside of work also greatly improved as I find time to see my friends and family and the gym again (no 1-hr one-way commute and getting ready)
Work & life balance not worklife balance.
Rising Star
Working remotely also removes my commute time entirely allowing me to both be more available to work and also have more time to recover from work.
Further, it allows me to pick up my children from school rather than both pay for after care and have to make an additional stop to pick them up on the way home, which is, for me, one of the few perks left about working in public accounting. Considering I'm definitely underpaid, this is the main reason I haven't already left.
My interpersonal skills are fine.
That said, I am a manager and I agree that staff and seniors definitely need more time together to help foster a relationship with each other and build the staff's connection to the firm. Our biggest issue is staff recruiting and retention and without developing deeper relationships with the staff who come in, we are reducing their incentive to remain here with the recruiters inevitably come calling.
Op BDO 1.
It’s time for you to go get that 30%+ raise and progress in your career.
Unless you are in a niche or pt, I’d consider leaving and see what is out there.
You can make it and be way better off.
Ok Boomer.
Ok someone who wants to just get by
Rising Star
I would argue with you. I love to argue. But the only thing I can say is that I agree. You’ll get young, inexperienced people come here to call you a boomer or argue that they know better with their 1 year in the office and 2 years working remotely, but they are clueless to how clueless they are. They will all start complaining when the ones in the office develop faster and get more interesting jobs with more complex and challenging things to do.
Good response Senior Director 1 - I agree with what you're saying. I'm not saying nothing was learned or there has been no skill development at all in the past few years, but the pace of development is slower. The "they are clueless as to how clueless they are" comment is valid in most cases. Perhaps some of these individuals are content topping out in a mid level position? Not saying it's impossible to get further than that working 100% remote for an entire career, but I still believe the people with in-person experiences will have the advantage over the long haul.
Just to argue, any negative affects to development at work would be offset by benefits in personal life. The debits always equal the credits.
Honestly when I was staff and moving up, I noticed that there were a lot of divorced people at the top. Thinking it is because we sacrifice a lot of our awake hours for work. Wonder with this remote work lifestyle if that would actually improve our personal relationships at home and thus have happier workers overall
If you can’t develop relationships remotely you got no game 🤷🏿♂️
I’ve made more connections and worked with more people across the region during remote work. When we were in the office I’d mainly just work with the local team, which stunted my growth. But I also do a good job at being on camera, reaching out, and checking in on people. I feel like this is easier to do remote where I can have one on one conversations easier. In the office we had an open floor plan which made it awkward to have one on one conversations unless you were magically able to duck into a free office. Now I get to work with people I like.
I think 1-2 days a week makes sense for staff and their supervising seniors.
Rising Star
Maybe that’s the bigger problem. One size doesn’t fit all.
I remember our audit teams used to struggle to figure out flexibility and all I could do was laugh when they said flexibility was that they would all get to leave at 6 on Thursday or the entire team would work together in the office on Tuesdays. They thought I was nuts when I said my people worked where they wanted or it was most efficient and that I didn’t give a damn if someone left for a dr appointment or a contractor at the house during the day as long as work still got done.
Whether you’re a staff in the office or in a virtual environment, it’s still on the persons leading those conversations (which you are saying the staff are missing out on remotely) to include the staff in those conversations. There’s no guarantee that a staff in the office would be included in those conversations. In my experience of both in person and remote work, I’ve rarely been included in anything outside of the work I’ve been assigned. And why would I? Budgets and realization requirements make it so that someone not staffed on an engagement can’t really be included. I think we have so many other things related to developing staff aside from this in-person vs. remote argument that keeps being hashed out.
@BDO4 yes I’m in audit. A lot of our tax people never worked at the client site anyway so you are probably correct that it’s more relevant in audit. I’m not at all opposed to a hybrid approach going forward but for audit I do think it’s important to spend some time on site. Staff who started during the pandemic definitely aren’t as developed as the groups before them and they don’t know what they don’t know.
Rising Star
My life has improved so much working remote. Things are way better when I’m not arbitrarily pent up in an office for 12 hours a day
This 1000% if it was not for wfh I would have been outta here. I recognize we are all different but this works for me
Chief
What if you work in a non client facing role lie tax and know what you are doing. Some people have families at home so need to be home to take care of the kids. Times are changing and there i think there can be better ways to develop staff
How is the world is tax not client facing? Whose returns are you filing anyways?
I’m in a different industry now, but it has been about 1 year and 7 months since Covid began. The question you should ask is how has the workplace failed to adapt to make working from home a better experience vs “muh camaraderie”.
The staff coming in now have all been raised where an internet presence is very common. Being apart of that generation I’ve never had issues socializing or developing relationships online due to it being common for most of my life. I see the older workforce if anything struggling to develop since they did not have the same exposure to the internet as the younger generations do today.
I personally think remote for public accounting is here to stay because who the hell wants to be in an office til 2 AM anymore? For most individuals I have talked to the line is much more blurrier with how late they work since the separation is much harder for them now.
I personally can’t believe that public accountants would want to go back into the office at this point. At least at home you can have the illusion of having a life
If what you say is true why is it that literally every staff I talk to tells me they want to spend a significant amount of time in office? Gen Z and younger millennials are COMFORTABLE online but that doesn’t mean they want to spend their whole career never meeting the people they work with.
#1) it's a debate not an argument. #2) if remote work is a failure, then why are so many companies permanently allowing it (e.g. PwC). 3) why are corporate profits at an all time if WFH is such a failure? 4) there's more than one way to obtain interpersonal skills, it's not something that you only learn in an office setting, why not let people chose what works best for them?
P1 - PwC had fully remote roles PreCOVID so I suspect we will have them long after. I think June 2022 is to allow them to reassess and see if they need more at the client site then remote. The days of teams being on site 5 days week for weeks on end are over for many if not most of our clients.
These are the same people that used to print their emails out to read them
I thought this was serious for a second until I saw the word macro being used lol
Agreed, especially for the younger folks. I get that I’d already established and happy with where you are then yea- staying home makes 100% perfect sense, but for all the newbies we aren’t learning anything not getting to know anyone we work with outside of ‘work’
From a developmental perspective, shouldn’t management also be more transparent and communicative from their end? Why does it just have to be yourself figuring it out?
As for developing relationships, it can work remotely but you have to put more of yourself out there compared to in person. You still have to make the effort, whether remote or in-person. You are more likely to end up having random conversations in person (hence the push for more open, collaborative spaces in offices), but it’s not like you can’t do it remotely. People just tend not to reach out as much when remote, which I think is because people don’t want to disturb others.
Not saying you’re completely wrong, but I don’t think it’s a 100% downgrade. It just means you have to put more effort into reaching out, whether you’re at the top or the bottom. It’s a two-way street.
lmao at “quick promotions and big raises they were the norm in PA before”
Rising Star
It’s probably right but a lot of people really don’t care because they honestly like being an individual contributor and they finally feel comfortable stepping back a bit and focusing on other areas of their lives
Things evolve. I have to believe that if the firm and team wants to figure out how to train and nurture staff remotely while also building relationships, they will figure it out. Maybe it’s easier in person but don’t let’s us pretend like it’s totally impossible in a remote scenario. Just like 3-5 years ago it’s would considered impossible to complete an audit remotely. Things are evolving, people priority are changing, if the firm wants to change and evolve too they can.
Rising Star
True. Maybe people aren’t developing in the traditional sense but they are definitely developing and adapting to the new structure.
Just because it looks different doesn’t mean it’s wrong
If I'm just being honest, this generation lacks social skills anyways. It's not just covid.
Agree that 100% is not ideal. Disagree that we need to be back 3-4 days a week. You can build relationships with coworkers execs and clients coming in 1-2 days a week. Just focus on building relationships and limiting unnecessary meetings during those days.
What if I don’t actually care about the client enough to sacrifice my personal life and just want to earn a paycheck to survive?
You need to go back to office 3-4 days… I don’t.