{ "media_type": "text", "post_content": "Manager: \"you look like you could use another hour of sleep\" me: \"I'm not a morning person\" inner me: \"*glares* I'm not wearing makeup, ya douche\"", "post_id": "58beb1a7df3aa2001051ec63", "reply_count": 72, "vote_count": 154, "bowl_id": "552d1d24dc1c586b09d2d051", "bowl_name": "Consulting", "feed_type": "crowd" }
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Manager: "you look like you could use another hour of sleep" me: "I'm not a morning person" inner me: "*glares* I'm not wearing makeup, ya douche"

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Ma1 If you want to know, if you tell me I look tired, you were my manager, and we didn't have that kind of rapport to being with, my immediate response would be no, I'm OK and a mental note to myself that I can never be comfortable being myself around you because something as simple as not wearing makeup for the day seems to have triggered you to believe I am not capable in some way. It may not at all be what you're trying to get at, you may be honestly concerned, but as the recipient of a comment like that, you should understand that is how some people will interpret it. If you're OK potentially alienating a team member and shutting down a conversation in your belief that it should be a totally acceptable question, then that's absolutely fine but just understand that this response isnt rare. Food for thought!

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I'm speechless C1. That is such an extreme reaction to such a benign comment. Honestly if you feel that strongly about it, you need to be having this conversation with your CC not FB, because rightly or wrongly it is impacting your interpersonal relationships at work and thus your ability to do your job and advance your career. If your CC feels your concern is reasonable, then they will need to have a discussion with that manager about some additional "sensitivity training" (for lack of a better term), and then he can decide if the firm's stance in this issue aligns with his or if he can mold to that. Having been through all of my firm's stuff I'm pretty confident in saying that your view is an outlier and you may even consider some counseling to understand why this kind of statement would have such a stressful impact - the training makes a big point to differentiate between comments that are inappropriate in any scenario, and comments that you feel are inappropriate in context when directed toward you, and the differences in how to address. This would fall into the latter and "lying + seething internally" is definitely not the route to go in either case. I am not trying to give you the "suck it up buttercup" speech here, but you are not giving me a good sense as to why this is affecting you in such a deep, emotional way - so my suspicion is that there is more going on either with you relationship with this manager, and/or your personal life, than has been detailed here.

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The weird thing is, OP is a male, so makeup wouldn't even be the norm.

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To be fair that's hard for us men to know

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I too would like to stand up for the manager to whom OP referred. Men have it so hard, we should cut them a break more
Also, shame on OP for complaining about their manager. FB isn't a place where we complain about things that frustrate us

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Covergirl cosmetices has male spoke models now P1 😉

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Spokes*

I call BS, D1. If I look tired, don't comment on it: problem solved!

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No one says it, @P2 - they don't have to. So much expectation that women will wear it already built in, that they hear things like what @OP did when they don't wear it.

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Whenever a superior male or female says that to me I feel like they care - it's so strange how it's the complete opposite for some women.

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Lmao P3 part of the "equality agenda" is to help men realize that their way is not the only way the world should be run. Just because a man doesn't take offense doesn't mean that the issue should be swept under the rug.

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Yeah, that seems dumb. Nothing wrong with making an observation about fatigue.

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Nobody's saying women have to wear makeup though....

😐

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Lmao this is one of those things where many women seem to equate you look tired to you look terrible. Meanwhile us men say to other me too who don't fee personally offended. Can ladies please try to stick to the equality agenda consistently and not expect to be treated and spoken to differently from men?

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OP why are you speaking for all women though? You are making this a gender thing when it may not be (I would argue likely not). If you are getting treated differently because of these perceptions then that is wrong. But jumping to the conclusion that "you look tired" equates to "you're not wearing makeup AND that's bad" is a huge leap. And to flip it another way, how SHOULD your superior express concern if he feels you are showing a level of overburden? I don't see a way here, and then he's going to get dinged for "not showing he cares". This is why men get frustrated at times, because of no-win scenarios like this.

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Just don't ever wear makeup period. Then ppl won't see a difference.

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Bottom line this is saying: Ok so not ever say to women they look tired. Just don't say it ever because some women think you're insulting them if you do. Whereas many men and also other women might actually feel like the person pointing that out is concerned, but you all gotta change the way you speak because a select few is sensitive about how they look without makeup.
I'm all for gender equity but this one makes no sense because it's just individuals feeling overly sensitive and no one actually is disadvantaged. The same comments are made across all genders and races.

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Ok, let's keep the original intention of this post in mind. OP is likely tired. OP dealt with something that annoyed her this morning. Let's give OP support during a time of need instead of trying to tell a complete stranger that her feelings are invalid. I have this convo with my male managers all of the time and only once have I take offense to it. For the most part, the convo is housed in a way of, "yeah, you have been working really hard. Thanks so much for your hard work." The one time that I was offended, it was bc this guy was legit commenting on my appearance and essentially telling me that I looked ugly/unprofessional (he was a M, not my SMs to whom I report, and the comment was made during small talk and not during my actual work and was made with a very judgemental tone, prob like douche to whom OP is referring). I was actually wearing make-up and if I have dairy, I get dark circles that even make-up cannot even cover up and sleep does not make them go away. Look, we are not stupid nor or we overly sensitive. The fact that OP referred to this guy as a douche makes me think that he has said and done other douchey things. I'd never refer to my two male SMs, with whom I often discuss the topic of having too much on my plate, as douches bc they are not and they don't broach this topic in a douche-like manner, not do they ever comment on my appearance. Know why? They handle this topic the appropriate way! Telling someone they look tired, esp a woman, is just not the way to go about this.

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Exactly OP- if men don't have to wear make-up, we should not have to wear make-up in the first place

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Yeah, not wearing make-up = male superior commenting on your appearance of how you look tired. I think that there are a few rare women on FB who don't have to wear make-up to look "well rested" and good for them!

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There is nothing wrong with a superior showing concern. The issue is that not wearing makeup = looking tired, which is a learned response due to us all growing up and seeing the vast majority of women always wearing makeup. The way out is to start trying to pay more attention, and if someone is looking tired, just ask how they're doing that day to give an opening, rather than going straight to announcing that they dont look as good as expected.

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D4: Ok so I ask and she says "I'm fine" but really isn't. I as her superior don't want to beat around the bush like this - "hey you look tired" is a valid observation from superior to charge and is only problematic if there is discriminatory intent behind it. Annnnd if you have a problem with the question, you should address the communication gap - not saying OP hasn't. But maybe OP looks tired because she is constantly looking for reasons to be offended....Food for thought.

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I mean, if you're legitimately concerned then you'll find a way to ask without having to go directly to physical appearance... Some alternatives: how are you? Have you been busy? Long night? Anything exciting going on? Fun plans for the weekend?... If you are actually interested in the life of your team member, these types of questions might open them up to letting you gage if they have too much on their plate, if that work life balance has tipped too far, if they're taking care of themselves, and maybe actually building rapport so that if someone did feel overworked or tired they wouldn't try to keep that hidden from you. Just a thought :)

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