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LOL the CHOKEHOLD capitalism has is embarrassing. It is not about work culture. It’s about their offices they’ve signed 30 year leases on sitting empty and becoming too costly. What do I need to do in the office that I can’t do from home or a coffee shop? And even if we’re talking working sessions, they don’t happen daily so there is no need to come in for more than a day a week. If that. And sounds like folks don’t know how to socialize/build community outside of work. If this pandemic hasn’t taught us anything else about working it’s taught us that it shouldn’t matter where the work gets done as long as it gets done. 😭 imagine people choosing long commutes, bland/costly food, fluorescent lights, packed elevators, no control over the AC, nasty coffee, etc etc on PURPOSE ☠️

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To be honest, I appreciate his direct answer. Will some people elect to leave over the issue? Sure. That will happen at many large companies. But you are being naive if you think there are enough flexible wfh opportunities at boutique fintechs for every mid level manager at JpM, GS, BofA, etc. And every year, thousands more will graduate, capable of replacing you and willing to commute into the office and get paid NYC wages. By the end of the calendar year, most of us will be back in the office 3 or more days a week, unless traveling to clients.

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There is *plenty* of work.

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Yeah good for him! Those plebes that make 1/10000 of his salary have had it too good for too long! They’re about to learn what happens when they value their “work life balance”, “family”, and “being just as productive if not more from anywhere than they were from the office”!!! They need to learn to be as dedicated to his annual 8 figure bonus as he is!!!

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Damn you really got me on the math there! Totally invalidated my sarcastic comment about the inequality of wealth in America!

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If you want to work remotely, employees should get the omaha Nebraska cost of living adjustment Agree 100% with his quote

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I’m laughing at the analyst because I’m a *Director* at 30. Anyway, I’ll keep it classy and simply say that thinking systemically and critically is a foundational skill in and outside of consulting. This CEO is alienating a ton of talent, like several others have said.

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Morgan Stanley is the most toxic place to work at

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Toxic is the right word

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Wtf does found their way into the office mean? You're in charge of the plan that tells people when they can/can't or should/shouldn't come back. Nobody is just going to wake up one day and decide to commute to the office

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It’s telling you without telling you. Read between the lines! :)

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He’s right though. You’re going out with your friends and can’t come in to work?

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Yes I can still go out with my friends AND I can still get my work done. The thought that I HAVE to be in a building with the name of my company on top to do the work is out of touch thinking.

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lol this thread reeks of (some) people angry and jealous they don’t have the skill set to work remotely and get paid SF rates. A good number of tech companies have only minor pay adjustments for lower COL areas or have even committed to same rates for anyone working anywhere in the US

likesmartfunny

All business is tech these days.

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Totally out of touch with employees today. Good luck recruiting or retaining talent with such a sharp tone and demand, says a lot about Corp culture. No thanks.

likesmart

Would you consider referring me?

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Did we really think the heads of major companies in LA, NYC, SF, SEA, CHI, DC, etc… would really allow major US cities to fail? Yes, many people can work remote. However, it is far more crippling to the US economy if they don’t require people to come back into the offices.

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D4, to your point, depends on whether they have clients and revenue streams in and related to business segments in those cities

He just wants everyone to see him in his corner office and all the assistants bringing him coffee

likesmartfunny

He sounds nice… 👹

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Don’t know how it works in the banking world, but here is my personal reason for why WFH has value way, way beyond avoiding disease, as Gorman seems to imply… Right before the pandemic, I lived in Chicago and had a client in Minneapolis. 95% of the time, my team worked by ourselves, and never even saw anyone from the client side. I woke up every Monday at 4am, trekked to ORD for a 6:30 flight, landed at MSP at 8, and would get to my client right at 9. I worked till about 1, got lunch with my team for 45 min, and kept on working till about 8. From 7-8pm, I was generally unproductive because I wrapped up my workstream a little sooner than my slightly more junior colleagues. We then all went out for dinner, and would be in the hotel by 9:30. That’s EIGHT HOURS AND FIFTEEN MINUTES of unproductive time on Monday alone. Totaled up over the course of a week, it was right around 30 hours. Life is too effing short to be burning that kind of time week after week, year after year. If my practice lead made such an asinine declaration, you bet I’d come in to the office— to hand-deliver my resignation.

likesmarthelpful

Similarly, if I’m not traveling but have to commute to the office (or many local clients), it takes me about an hour each way door to door regardless of whether I drive or (preferably) take a commuter train. While I can potentially take calls in the car or catch up on email on the train, it’s always going to be less productive time. So if I spend 2 hours commuting per day and commute, say, 20 days in a month, I’ve wasted 40 hours - an entire normal workweek - while also increasing my expenses (gas, parking, rail tickets etc.) plus wear and tear on my vehicle and generating pollution. I can just do so much more with that lost time and money.

likesmart

“Build community outside work” - that right there is what most of the non C-Suite, “everyone get back to offices” gang of employees need to work on !! The C-suites and leadership class have their own motivations apart from that

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My tennis partner is 25 and is as powerless at his job as I am at mine so yes maybe in the future he is a client when I am a partner but until then, I am dependent on others for getting promoted and all he is good for is his volley and ability to drink beers on a sunday morning. If this job really can be done completely remotely then well non of us work harder than our colleagues in India and they’ll replace us all and happily go into the office for the trouble. Maybe y’all should talk to your colleagues (especially junior ones) who joined in the middle of the pandemic to see how they are doing with no in person interactions - client facing or internal. And no where did I say I am better than any other employees. Its just that some employees dont get any benefits of the company doing better (they should) and some get pretty decent benefits. If you’re a junior consultant or junior SDE at Amzn, you’re still a member of the owner class through the ESOPS / Bonus Pool, don’t appropriate the struggles of the warehouse employees and delivery drivers who get paid terrible wages, work long hours for a minimum wage and $0 in stocks.

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Ok boomer Gorman

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This May have been posted somewhere else but this type of argument is the same fallacy that product pricing should be simply a function of manufacturing cost. It’s a factor but the market sets rates. Labor should (and is/will) be compensated based on the value it delivers and the rate the market will bear. Cost of that labor (I.e. our cost of living) will have some effect of course but also not matter in many scenarios. Another way to put it: Why wouldn’t I want to optimize my own profitability? I owe it to my shareholders and it’s what the market demands.

likesmart

KPMG - I think you are right and in IT for example that has been happening for a long time already. Try to find a larger firm that does something like IT Helpdesk, etc out of a HCOL or even the US. I think at a macro-level, it’s not just about salaries and physical locations either. There is probably also a tendency for people with certain capabilities to gravitate to each other because it forms social and cultural groups. E.g. Many folks here might still want to live in NYC even if the job is remote but they enjoy the lifestyle the city offers. Another angle is around the macro industrial trends. Settlements were decentralized with agriculture because of the need for land. Industrial production created large cities. The services sector continued that trend. With technology the need for services sector businesses to be concentrated will lessen or disappear entirely. Settlements will adapt.

Funny thing is it’s not even about the office. It’s about the employees. His attitude toward them is the biggest issue here. That’s not good for business.

likesmart

He’s referring to front office staff. He would prefer to save real estate costs by reducing office footprint and having non-FO staff work remotely/non-NYC.

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Yep all back office folks who will be relocated to LCOL, and if you don’t want to move sorry we’ll have to let you go. #costsavings

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I think the focus should be about getting the work done. This drive to put everyone back in an office space is ridiculous and a very old way of thinking. Some thrive at it and good let them come in. Others like the option of not, for whatever reason. Is the work getting done? If so, then personally i don’t care.

likesmart

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