{ "media_type": "text", "post_content": "No politics, just intellectual debate. Theft = Illegal, Rape = Illegal, Entry to US without visa = Undocumented but not illegal ??? Seriously?? Really want to understand viewpoints.", "post_id": "58ba20c4da734d0016053d89", "reply_count": 48, "vote_count": 7, "bowl_id": "564a5cdb94887803001dd07c", "bowl_name": "Accounting", "feed_type": "crowd" }
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No politics, just intellectual debate. Theft = Illegal, Rape = Illegal, Entry to US without visa = Undocumented but not illegal ??? Seriously?? Really want to understand viewpoints.

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Here's my response to PwC 1 and it isn't pretty. Guess what, the natives did think of us as illegal in a way and there are instances of battles and warfare. At the end of the day the US government won and with the victory came the application of US law throughout the land. History is full of different groups of people fighting and overthrowing the established people and taking their lands but that's what happens when you lose. So we're we illegal at one point? Yes. Did we the lands from them and make them our own and apply our laws? Yes. Was it right? Maybe not in the manner it happened but it happened and I'm not about to let that "wrong" and all other historical wrongs prevent me from applying the law of the land as is.

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The fact that many native born citizens don't understand about our immigration laws is that there is no legal option for poor families in Central America to apply and become residents of the USA. I talk to many people that believe those people are just lazy or unwilling to go through an application process. Believe me, if it existed they would choose it. Instead they pay thousands of dollars they can't afford to coyotes and risk their lives to enter the USA. All so they can work menial jobs for 18+ hours a day and be taken advantage of by unscrupulous employers that don't have to pay benefits or minimum wage. Congress has failed to fix the system for decades. There are legitimate needs for guest workers and for normalizing and brining a subclass out of the shadows. I don't think it's right to break the law, but the law is fundamentally flawed and built to favor rich elites. I support comprehensive immigration reform, but it's a political third rail. On the left the unions oppose and on the right the social conservatives oppose. I hope that calculus changes someday soon, but until then I'm not going to blame anyone that comes here to work hard and support a family in safety.

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^ did anyone understand that?

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I'm an immigrant and i agree, undocumented immigrants are a nuisance to any nations.

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I used to work in a law firm that did immigration law and I've seen the hard work and effort those people out in to become legal citizens. They deserve it, illegals dont.

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Wait I wanna hear OP explain why PWC is wrong

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I think we need to recognize that actual theft and rape are a lot worse that being an undocumented immigrant. You can't honestly tell me an undocumented immigrant harms the public as much as a rapist.

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@D1 touché, same here. I am an immigrant who came here legally. While I sympathize for those who came illegally, I can't understand the reluctance to apply the law. It's like saying, yeah they robbed a bank but only took $20....irrelevant, the law is the law. Am I missing something?

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Plus most undocumented immigrants are doing the jobs regular Americans don't want to do. If your cool switching your profession to being a janitor. Then by all means chase out the undocumented immigrants so you can have their shitty underpaid jobs

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USA is facing the issue that our economy benefits greatly off the work of illegal immigrants. Getting rid of all illegals hurts our economy so it's hard to reconcile the two things. Also, why aren't businesses that hire illegals being fined? That's still a crime the last time I checked.

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Honestly the fact that OP started this thread bc he/she/it wanted to have a conversation, but then decided that everything is a "dumb argument" is what irks me about this post.

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Yeah, I still don't understand how come smoking a joint and minding your own business = illegal too!

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Illegal alien is literally the term in the laws. Undocumented is just the "political correct" term but it's garbage. Need every country, even places like canada, have less tolerance for illegal aliens than the US does.

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Degrees of law ARE important! That's why you don't go to jail for a fucking speeding ticket

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If this is really thought about, about 95% of you guys will be illegal. Only native Americans will be considered legal

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Op got no answers 😂 always say something like 'dumb argument'. Guess what! If you are not a Native American, you are the last person who should question about these 'illegal' immigrants!

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OP your post and all of your responses make me want to vomit. I'm not going to argue with you because I can see from your comments that you and I completely disagree and there really doesn't seem to be any reason to discuss that further. I want you to know that over 10 million people are here illegally for a reason: breaking the law because that was the safest/best option to provide for their families. Legal immigration takes money. So while I understand that they did something illegal, I don't consider them, as human, illegals. They arrived her illegally. They are undocumented immigrants.

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Somehow enforcing the law became conflated with "racism and fascism". Every person who came in illegally or overstayed a visa willingly did so. No sympathy here. As for kids who came in with their parents, that's also the parents fault.

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Wait I don't get it...when did EY 2 say speeding tickets = illegal immigration? I believe the comparison was just to show that the severity of the crime correlates to the severity of the punishment.

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If a 5 year old kid was brought by their parents, he is undocumented, not illegal. Not their fault of they were brought here. Also illegal is action not people

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Isn't this native Americans' land in the first place? What's your argument about it? If they had the same mentality as you when Europeans came here, most of you will be considered 'undocumented' by now!

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