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Could you finish you sentence? Not sure your point, do you want also quite the ratio for black CEO, black MD in IB? Or you only care women senior ratio?
Never understood this and never will. In my finance classes in college there were at most 2-3 girls in the class. I pray to God this isnt a "sexism" argument. Its more a matter of where there interests lie.
@MS1 I joined because I was interested in finance and figured 1) society is a lot better than it used to be and 2) if I let that intimidate me I was being part of the problem
@CS1 woah there buddy! Take the rod out of your ass. Or a huge chill pill. Actually, do both. I am not playing victim at all. I have a very successful career! I was merely trying to present how some, not all, women, minorities, etc. may opt out of joining the industry and how that may explain your low class numbers. Which, by the way, is a personal experience on your end. And I was sharing a personal experience on my end.
If you don't want to consider other viewpoints other than your own, just say so dude. I don't really get what you're trying to prove. The article says there are low % of female CEOs. You say because none of them want to be based on your finance class in college (forgetting that the article isn't finance-specific but I let that one slide). I say that I agree with you that there is some self selection and partially validated your personal experience. I also shared my personal experience and explained in a very non confrontational manner why self selection isn't the only thing at play here and that we can improve that. You flip out. Take some deep breathes kiddo! You're hysterical, love. Is it your time of the month again?
@CS1, yes that's certainly a big component of it, but to say it's the only factor is to ignore a lot of issues that we can correct as a society. It's a view that protects you from having to face harsh realities of the world. If you aren't a woman, I'd be careful throwing arguments like that out into the world. If I were to hear a guy say that, I'd be very irritated. At times, while I was very interested in finance, I considered not doing it because I thought it might be a boys club were I'd never be able to have a true chance of making it to the top. That's not something straight white men have ever had to imagine and it's impossible to understand if you haven't lived it. That's not an attack on straight white men - it's a request for understanding on their part. In sum, when people bring up gender or race issues, don't take it as an assault on you. Take it as a challenge to correct the things we can correct to make the world better.
^ what made you change your mind and joined finance then? What is your view now?
Hopefully, as time goes on and the more ethnically and gender diverse classes of the last 5 or so years climb the career ladder, this gap is going to grow smaller. People of F500 CEO age grew up in an era where there was a lot of serious ostracism of non-White non-males in this industry- and while it's gradually improving now I think we're unlikely to see a fairer balance at the highest level until the diversity filters upwards. Give it a decade, maybe, minimum.
JPMC: yes we agree on pay as it pertains to merit. The cashier example you mentioned falls under the the 1964 act, which I support. My current opinion, however, is reserved to fields, like ours which you also astutely recognize are highly complex and aren't as easy to apply a blanket equal pay-equal work metrics. It's the current policy amendments and applications in industries as complex as ours that I ponder it's efficacy and fairness. As for CS finance class example, I suspect he was using that experience as an indicator of general women's interest in pursuing fields such as finance. In that if women were interested, more would enroll in the finance class on their own volition. On that point I actually agree with him. I think you and I can agree that most women opt out of STEM classes partly because of their fear of aptitude and partly out of interest. Naturally it begs the question that if fear and lack of interest carry over into their adult professional careers, does that choice impact their occupation selection and interest in management/leadership opportunities in fields such as ours? On that point, I agree that it carries some merit. Hence the growing movement of STEM programs catering to girls. As for his beliefs, I don't think any of the options a-c are representative of his final stance or opinion. He's young and learning so I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt on the rest of his debatable points. I'd also venture to guess that during his early professional career he hasn't witnessed or worked with a meaningful number of successful female finance (who didn't play the gender card) to help expand his perceptive of the valuable role women can offer in finance and on teams. That's where you, I, and other women and supportive men can play a pivotal role in our workplace to demonstrate value and merit without making it a gender issue.
*their
@JPM1, geez I almost threw up in my mouth at you playing the victim. You presented no facts except your opinion and own feelings. Precisely why I cant take anything you said serious.
CS1: I understand your perspective and rationale. It has merit and some of which, as a woman and I agree with. In your career, you will likely come across a lot of women who will present their arguments from their perceptive and feelings. The behavioral science behind that illustrates that a vast majority of female personality types (Myers-Briggs) have a high FP or FJ trait. Conversely, Less than 3% of women have a dominant TJ or TP function ( which by the way men carry a higher preponderance). This can help explain some of the miscommunication and misunderstanding between the genders. Now that is not to say that a person's feelings and perceptions are false, but rather to assert that they are subjective interpretations of reality and will factor into his/her into decision making. That said, some women may be deterred from joining a finance/tech field because their feelings/perceptions aren't aligned with what they perceive to be reality and their perceived odds of success. One school of thought argues that it is others responsibility to adapt/accommodate those subjective feelings and perceptions. There is another school of thought that argues it is the individual's responsibility. Which is correct is up for debate. I'm of the opinion that it requires some compromise, to varying degrees by both schools of thought. As for the OP article, it is true that the statistic is rather low and studies have shown over extended periods of time that increasing diversity and diversity of thought in the workforce can lead to better firm profitability, stewardship, and innovation. However, the responsibility also falls on women to challenge their own perceptions, overcome self imposed fears, adapt their approaches, and actively raise their hand for opportunities. Here's a quick example, if women are actively looking for "love" in the workplace how does that behavior support their consideration for leadership and management selection? Also, Successful business practice entails an element of relationship building and firm mindedness. If women shy away from necessary constructive conflict/disagreements, how does that impact their ability and effectiveness at negotiating and executing tough decisions? Alternatively, Is it FAIR that women who take time from their job and subsequently miss out on job skills development/critical experience expect and demand to get paid equally to their male and female counterparts who chose to work full time without time out? I'm all in favor for fair pay and I don't think equal pay as it is proposed now is fair. Btw, this is all my personal opinion and one as a woman I have struggled to understand quietly because the political discourse climate will chastise/demonize women who don't subscribe to the women's agenda currently espoused.
Vice President: If a woman shies away from important negotiations and misses deals because of it, then her merit doesn't stand up to her coworkers (male and female) and should be paid less on merit. Equal pay is about equal work. So a cashier, for example, should make the same amount irrespective of gender. In our field, the conversation becomes muddled because of incentive pay so you can't really use traditional pay gap metrics.
Anyways, I'm still confused how low numbers of women in CS's finance class explains the article. Also confused why he thinks that is the ONLY variable at play. It means he a) doesn't want to admit there are still hurdles for women, minorities, etc. or b) he knows there are hurdles and wants to ignore that fact and continue to build hurdles up for them or c) thinks those groups are intellectually inferior to straight white men