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9/15 Thread (BC):
Which is a better product role to exit to tech industry + for career progression? I will move to Austin, TX end of this year where I want to join a tech company (in product analytics, payments, ecommerce)
1. Product Owner at Morningstar (product configuration for new companies + occasional new feature to the product. Product: investment data analytics for B2B)
2. Senior Product Manager at a boutique consulting firm (product: payments, ecommerce)
Background: 6 yrs as PM at boutique consulting
Additional Posts in Teachers
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Does anyone else get the "summer time blues "?
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Yep…and if ESOL it’s a 60%!
My husband is a General Contractor on 30A and he has to read Everything to his workers bc they GRADUATED from FL schools in my district that GAVE them grades!! I don’t teach in the same county he works in…I’m just saying…I’d love to NOT GO TO WORK AND STILL GET 50 or 60% of my pay!! ❤️🤣❤️
OK you are a meatloaf if you think this is true. North Dakota person. If you have never been on welfare kindly F-off. It is NOT what you portray it to be and YOU are part of the problem. Perhaps education of professionals in the Dakotas needs to be addressed.
At first I felt the same way when this was implemented. In the long term I have come to appreciate the change, even if it took over years of using it. It gives students a chance to succeed at some level
. Without something like this they mathematically don’t have a chance to rebound. Give it a shot. You might actually come to appreciate it too.
To those vehemently against it, I suggest you consider thinking about out real purpose as teachers. If this gives students a chance (again and again), and that upsets you, I suggest you reevaluate your career choice.
I teach culinary. Labs are a necessity and account for 60% of the grade. If a student is absent, unexcused they get a 0. Absent excused, they are excused. Present but not able to participate for whatever reason, (usually it’s dress standard) they can earn 50% credit by wring a short essay. I give them topics related to holding a job. Since what I am trying to teach is “you have to at least show up and be prepared to put in tue effort”
My husband is a auto mechanic- young people that come into his shop can’t put the phone down and simply work. They also struggle to diagnose problems with cars.
They can usually fix them, once someone tells them what is wrong…. But they can’t even think back to the previous week when they had a similar issue with another car. Unfortunately my principal told us at the beginning of the year, “kids don’t need to actually know anything” they can google everything.
But my response to that is a person does not know what they don’t know…. And you can’t google that.
We are developing a society incompetent deserving individuals. The concepts behind such stupidity is mind blowing. I am a Mexican immigrant who studied and worked hard to be successful. My family and I have never asked or have taken any handouts or anything unearned. My father taught us about pride, hard work and the ethiics behind it. These hard work principles that made this amazing country are being replaced and eroded by ridiculous ideologies such as CRT and crippling grading policies. How do we expect this generation to perform in the workforce? Deserving is not the same as earning. Everyone is claiming to be a victim, what happened to accountability and responsibility? The teaching profession is already difficult enough, with these grading policies the credibility to our craft and the educational system is further disrespected and weakened. I am saddened by what I see. This country has become weak and I fear for my sons future. For those of you who agree with me keep fighting the good fight. Keep your integrity and the standards that will create a workforce that doesn't demand handouts. Grades, jobs, salaries & accolades must be earned. Don't give or accept participation trophies.
Agreed.
This kind of grading is pure silliness. It significantly lowers the threshold for assessing mastery of a subject.
Well said and sadly true.
Meh…
Just give everyone 100%!
Makes grading much more easy.
As a matter of fact… let’s just show movies all day long in class!
Chief
That is basically the next step in this progression.
Yes let’s give everyone a trophy. Just show up and do nothing and get rewarded. Thankfully retirement is soon for me. I can’t take this anymore.
The dumbing down of America is the truest thing I have heard recently.
i am going to add my two cents here: this is a mindset change for educators.
look at traditional grading scales: 100-90, 80-89, 70-79, 60-69 are all passing grades. there are 10 percentage points to advance to next letter grade. so why do we have a 60 percentage point spread to get from a zero to a passing grade?
this is not rewarding a student for no work, it is changing our scale, if you want think of the 50 at the new zero.
this really does give students the opportunity to earn a passing score if they were indeed "lazy" or didn't do work for whatever reason.
Hah, putting myself back in my teenage shoes I can tell you this, I would have done next to nothing based on this absurd policy. Like most kids I would have found a way to do the barest of minimums and still earn the grade I desired. I would skip every challenging or time consuming assignment and then finish just enough to get a C. You can’t approach these types of thoughts or issues with an adult lens, the underdeveloped adolescent brain does not see things this way. It’s like playgrounds designed by adults without the foresight of what it would be like for a child. (If you’re a parent you know exactly what I’m talking about.)
But they still fail, right, if all they get are 50s. The outcome is still failure.
Uhm….CA12. Not really gonna argue the 0 thing, but you call out the math of teachers giving 0’s while failing your math section in your post.
Even with giving 0’s in your fictional scenario, the student gets a c based on total points.
Say a class is out of 400 points each divided into each of the four named categories equally.
100/100 homework
97/100 tests
100/100 classwork
0/100 projects.
That’s 297/400 or 74%.
They did 75% of the work, right? So isn’t a 74 fair? They aren’t failing, and they didn’t do an entire category that is meant to show mastery. Literally sat out every project.
If you change that to the 50 is now a zero. The score becomes 347/400 or an 87. Doesn’t an 87 for doing 75% of the work seem strange compared to the 74?
I didn’t hurt that gpa, they did by finishing 0 of my papers, presentations, speeches, etc.
Now this all changes based on the grading formula a teacher uses, but your math is just off. No one fails in the scenario you have because they got 0’s. For instance, I weigh papers and speeches much more heavily and getting a 0% in that category is a guaranteed fail, but I teach a college level writing class where classwork is weighted 30% and projects (papers and speeches) are 70%
Chief
I understand the theory behind this grading system. I have used it for years. It does sugar coat the reality for parents and students.
I would prefer a mastery based system like our kinder and 1st grade classes use. Has the kid mastered a skill? This would make parents better understand their child’s level. Telling parents that their kid is 2 years behind (and passing each grade level) versus them seeing all the skills the kid needs to work on probably would be eye opening.
I have done a bunch of reading on this topic because I don't know how i feel about it. Ultimately by giving the kids a 50 you just made the system into a Mastery based, 1,2,3,4,5 Type system. 50 = 0 60 =1 70 =2 80 = 3 90 = 4 100 = 5.
50 is still failing but as they do work and get things done and learn, they will earn higher grades pulling them out of the hole. Where if you give them a zero, that one zero is going to knock a kid from B to a D with little hope of bringing it back up. By making it a 50 they have a better chance of digging out of the hole.
This is where I have mixed feelings because I understand the concept behind it, were watering down the system more, Where if they just did the work in class they would get a C and not fail. I should need to make passing 'more attainable'
100% is 10 points higher than the lowest A and 50% is 9 points lower than the highest F 59. If a student has a bad day and turns nothing in and gets a 0 and then has a fantastic day and gets a 100.. the average is still an F at 50%. When in thought an F and an A should be a C. (0.0 + 4.0) / 2 = 2.0 The idea by the administration is that we don't want the students to find themselves in "F-this Im not going to pass anyway mode" with zeros that would render future efforts worthless. We are giving the students an amount of forgiveness with a score of a 50. Sometimes we have to soften our hearts to accept this.
Assuming the assignments have the same point value and weighting.
I fully support the concept of this policy but wish we'd take it a step further so it would make sense to others as well. Under the current system, grades below 50 skew overall grades way too much. Imagine that we stop grading on percentage, and instead assign grades of 1-5 (or 0-4) that would reflect A B C D F. That would eliminate the idea of "giving" them free points and would average much more fairly. If a kid fails first semester with a very low grade, it would be almost impossible (in some cases completely impossible) to pass the semester and gain the credit. That causes a kid to shut down way more than it does changing a low F to a medium F.
LIke it! I use 5-9 for my scale and there is no skew high or low. Sounds like you have it going on and are really taking care of the students. Keeping hope alive.
Giving a zero instead of a 50% is the academic equivalent to kicking an opponent while they are down. Help them back up. Your job is to inspire, not to punish.
I totally agree with you. I teach high school and college and it is unfortunate to see students who struggle because while everything has been given to them and made easy prior to college, they now have to figure out how to earn a grade.
We have a 50% mercy rule but only if the student makes a good faith effort. A zero can drive an average way down, and the thought is that shouldn’t happen to a kid who’s trying.
How can a kid be trying if they didn't turn something in? That doesn't seem possible. I NEVER give zeros for assignments that were submitted because obviously some amount of effort was exerted whether the answers are right or wrong. I just don't see how not submitting an assignment at all can be viewing as trying... All of my zeros are from kids that turn in nothing.
Ugh this is aggravating. I'm all for giving kids chances to complete missing work, but definitely not giving them grades for things they didn't do. Silliness was a good word for it as someone said above.
We are seeing a huge uptick in disruptive behaviors in class. I blame it on the “something for nothing” grading policy we are discussing in this thread. Students are putting more effort into their unruly behavior then academics, and that’s sad!
really? blaming a child's aggression on a grading scale rather than a pandemic, uncertainty, in-school/out of school, deaths, no work, etc...
We have this same policy and the opposite has happened with our students. Before when students earned a 0% on a test or quiz, they gave up; they knew they could not recover from that. It is not mathematically possible for a student to recover from earning 0% on a quiz/test (at least not in our grading system.)
When earning 50% a student is still earning an F, but mathematically they are able to recover their semester grade with earning 50%; they are able to learn from their mistake. Having this grading practice has helped some students realize that they can learn from their mistakes, rather than being crushed by one error.
IMO education is about learning, not earning grades. If we can help students learn from their mistakes, that is more important than any content they may master. Students need to learn how to address new material and use the feedback they receive to improve and learn more.
Questions for you: You say that students have learned they don't have to do anything and still earn 50% so kids do not do the work. Don't they still fail with earning 50%? If they fail are they not required to retake any required courses? I'm struggling to see where students would choose to do nothing to earn 50%, fail the class and somehow learn this is a productive choice if they still have to retake the course. Can you explain how this has caused students to not do the work? What does that gain them other than 50%, and failing the class? When did your district begin this practice? What is the data you have to show that this has caused students to not do the work or just do the bare minimum?
I have never seen a grade scale change that actually caused a significant redistribution of the number of students getting “F”s. And I have seen several attempts at trying to “assist” students by changing the points systems attached to grades.
It seems students will find the grade that they are comfortable with achieving and then settle into the requirement of work or effort that is needed to maintain that level. And for some students at that moment of their lives, the minimum standard that we call “passing” is just more than they are willing to work to reach.
But I’m still just getting started after two decades of paying close attention to this. And maybe kids have just changed that much.
I do appreciate that this is one area our states federal depts of Ed haven’t tinkered with yet so that you can try adjustments to better fit your local community and students. I’m all for trying new things and seeing what happens. So I’m glad you have seen success and wish you the best going forward.
Hmmmm we're over here giving candy left and right for walking to a class room. Sitting in the chair. Taking out a pencil. Doing one problem in 40 minutes. Spending 2 consecutive minutes in the classroom. "Breaks" to walk the halls every 1/2 hour for 5-10 mins.
I was under the impression that regardless if you're actually an educator (b/c as far as I'm concerned, every adult is a teacher in some way, shape, or form), an ADULTS JOB is to teach life skills to kids. We're not doing that. We're not teaching perseverance, critical thinking...it's like we're just here. We're the warm bodies in the room. Don't tell kids No, and certainly don't hold them accountable to, or for anything.
There are those of us who would, even knowing full well we don't *have* to, bust our behinds to study and get as good a grade as we possibly can, or do as well as we can at a job. Then there are those who will look for the easy way out b/c they can, or b/c they don't want to fail---we're not teaching kids to *try*. You don't become better at something by not doing it. And if you still suck at it, that's one thing, and I can totally understand trying and trying and still not getting something right. That's different than Eh feck it I'm not even messing w/it, and it being ok.
Our daughter runs XC. Was #1 Varsity runner for a couple years, has slipped back to #4. You can show up everyday and work your tail off and still not be #1, maybe you're a JV runner. But you're still showing up and trying. We shouldn't be giving kids who aren't even out for XC, a Varsity letter, and that's what this begins to feel like, w/grades. And what would that tell/show my daughter and the others who *do* show up and bust their tails? What kind of professional people are we going to put out in the workforce? Doctors who didn't bother to show up b/c they knew they'd still get a passing grade? Cripes.
Chief
It's as if we are turning back towards a 3rd world country
I used to be adamently oppposed to this, but I have changed my views after truly studying the faulty 100 point system. As long as we keep using that system, we should do what we can to mitigate the problems and inequities. It really is a mindshift; however, I would prefer getting rid of that system altogether. I'm reading Grading For Equity by Joe Feldman.
A zero and a 70 used to be a 35%.
Now it’s a 60%.
We still have Ds in Ohio, so it's passing. We did away with Ds in Texas years ago. I don't know if they out them back.
We read that book this summer and all decided it was just absolutely ridiculous.
Which book? The Grading Systems of Univeristies from 1935? The papers that have been published since the 1970s with statistically valid data showing no grade inflation with minimum grading? Just like a teacher to read one book and think they know better than people who do actual research. If you want fair in your system, take all of your evaluation scores, set the highest to 1, find the mean, and go three standard deviations out. First standard deviation is A teacher. For each A there is a corresponding F teacher and they get fired. Second deviation is a B. For every B there will be a D tefacher on probation. The rest are C teachers. Equitable, unforgiving and you can live with the chance of losing you livelihood based on how the group does. Welcome to it.