{ "media_type": "text", "post_content": "Potentially unpopular opinion: I only tip for food when I'm being served (takeout, fast food, counter service I don't tip). It is not my job to supplement the wages of individuals who are exploited by management. The great resignation has shown us that workers have incredible power right now and I hope they use that to their advantage. Overall, tip culture in the US is horrific and needs to go the way of the dinosaur", "post_id": "623da7500bf27f0031445e51", "reply_count": 97, "vote_count": 86, "bowl_id": "552d1d24dc1c586b09d2d051", "bowl_name": "Consulting", "feed_type": "crowd" }
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Potentially unpopular opinion: I only tip for food when I'm being served (takeout, fast food, counter service I don't tip). It is not my job to supplement the wages of individuals who are exploited by management. The great resignation has shown us that workers have incredible power right now and I hope they use that to their advantage. Overall, tip culture in the US is horrific and needs to go the way of the dinosaur

likesmartuplifting
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This whole thread is a great example of why tipping has to die. And I’m speaking as someone who used to be a server, busser, line cook, host, bartender, and restaurant manager. It is one of the worst businesses to work for because it’s so toxic and predatory.

So many people are blaming the CUSTOMER, when it’s the BUSINESS that’s responsible for their worker’s compensation. The CUSTOMER isn’t “sticking it” to the worker. It’s the business that’s sticking it to the customer and the worker. It’s one of the greatest tricks ever pulled in a market and people still fall for it.

They pay employees only 60% of minimum wage with no medical care or retirement, shame and use retaliation when they call in sick, and get them and the customer to duke it out over compensation. And y’all are suckers for defending it.

Also, for the life of me, I don’t know why restaurants aren’t required to fully provide (and I mean truly provide) comprehensive health insurance for their employees. Trust me, if you knew how often people worked when sick (coughing, sneezing, wiping their nose, etc), you probably wouldn’t go out to eat. It’s a lot. And they are serving you your food you ordered which you then eat.

If you actually cared for the well being of the employee that’s not getting tipped, you wouldn’t go to those places.

likesmartupliftinghelpful

Like you know who I am to call BS 🤣

You missed my point in context to the rest of the thread. People not tipping service employees is not going to change anything. My point about delivery is not about the 20-30% service fees. It boils down to the restaurant industry is no longer a desirable one anymore and finding good servers or good service line chefs is almost impossible. They don’t want to work where a significant portion of their wages were based on tips or pooling tips. Even if restaurant owners raised the wages another $5-10 an hour it doesn’t replace the hundreds a good server made in a day.

Your startup focused on a specific persona and segment of the restaurant market. You are bucketing mom and pop shops and hard working entrepreneurs with restaurant groups 🤣 No wonder you’re jaded. Toast, Chownow, and a number of services are making decent headway in that similar B2B space (I think Toast hit $15-20B valuation at IPO) but all of them have been hit hard by the macro industry trends.

I have two separate friends who own 5 successful restaurants in Los Angeles. And I used to work for 6 years in a restaurant and venue marketing consulting with quite a few GMs that I still keep in touch with. The pandemic has been a forcing mechanism to get this industry to wake up and those who were slow have died over the last 2 years. It’s going to continue to be a challenge for restaurant owners as long as there are labor challenges for the industry in addition to the challenges they’ve always faced.

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We have tips because it lets venues sell the same thing at different prices (price discrimination). Generous people cross subsidize the stingy ones. Maximizes the business' revenue by maximizing their share of the take.

Price discrimination maximizes profits but it's rare for businesses to be able to pull it off, generally. (Universities build their whole business model off price discrimination.)

In DC, waiters are guaranteed at least minimum wage, but it seems this isn't well known or enforced, so pay by tipping also fosters venues stealing wages.

Plus, the aristocracy of waiter world (think waiters at $$$ restaurants) benefit from doing similar work for much more pay - much like any service people who cater to the rich (tutors, coaches, realtors, etc). So the career waiters are often rather muted if not outright critical about eliminating tips.

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This is what living in an echo chamber looks like. You assume wage growth is across the board (it isn’t), inflation hasn’t eaten into wage growth (it has), and there are systemic efforts to fix low wage issues (not really as America is still a capitalist market). Imagine EY not tipping you (the bonus) because you worked remote instead of serving clients in person.

likefunnysmart

The comparison is absurd, bonuses that we get are directly tied to the money we made for our firms, our bonuses are cut down if the leadership remotely thinks that the firm is not going to meet its targets, a good example is 2020. On the other hand my server at a restaurant is never going to make money for me so the two can’t be compared

It’s nice that you’re going to stick it to the food service workers as a way to signal your disapproval at the way that restaurant owners protect their legendarily fat profit margins. It’s weird the way those businesses have done so amazingly well in the past couple of years and somehow still won’t pay their staffs.

Gotta hand it to you… it’s not easy to combine selfishness, self-righteousness and poor business understanding in a single simple action but you have pulled it off. A virtual put on your back for nailing the trifecta.

likefunnysmart

I don’t know what your line of work is but if you think Olive Garden had $3B in profit last year, you need some education on how to read a financial statement. You also need to understand how that kind of business works - most importantly that the parent company isn’t paying the wages in a franchise model.

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I just had this conversation with some people on here and it was not well received. Apparently its fine to give money to businesses that don't pay their employees a fair wage, but
you're an awful person if you don't tip 20%. No logic

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With you, OP. As an immigrant who pays high taxes and large student loans, I don’t understand why it’s my responsibility to ensure restaurant workers are paid enough.
I also struggle with why I have to leave at a tip to taxi drivers. What’s the fare and all the taxes on top of it for?

like

Agreed, I don’t tip unless I’m served.

There was once an attendant pressing buttons at a drive thru car wash and asked if I wanted to tip. Why put someone there at all? I can press my own buttons.

like

Vote with your wallet by not giving money to the industries and stores whose salary practices you disagree with, not by skipping tips.

likesmart

I generally do. I should have clarified that. But I agree with you

like

The logic isnt very consistent. Why are you not served at a counter? You could argue that you do not need to tip anyone then.
Not argueing against you, but not sure where a fair cut off is.

likefunny

Tipping has always been arbitrary, for example you tip a massage therapist but not a physical therapist. You might tip the doorman that bring a package up to your apartment but not the delivery driver that brings it to your door.

like

It’s not as if my wages are so high after tax deductions and everything. So I give tax to run the economy (great), then I give sales tax and service tax when I eat food ( great), then I pay delivery fee if I use delivery apps and I am also supposed to be paying the individuals ?

Like have the middle class taken the responsibility of keeping a sane order for everyone? The rich don’t bother to pay taxes even businesses for that matter of medium scale, the poor are fighting for their rights from the govt while the middle class (service class more so due to at source deductions) is funding everyone’s luxury.

No thank you !

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I used to think this way until I started making a lot more money then I realized I don't give an f about the extra 62 cents it costs to tip for a cup of coffee and I just hit the button and move on

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How much do you make EY?

The only thing I won’t tip is the nonsense of being served at a counter. Individuals who act as a cashier are being paid some form of salary unlike Uber delivery servers etc. I get they get paid shit and we as a society should fight for companies to pay them a living wage. I’d be more than happy to pay an extra buck or two to supplement your business’s wage increases but I will not subsidize Starbucks employees with tips when Starbucks is worth billions of dollars. Unionize and make Starbucks pay

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I think this way. If you’re providing a service to me you’re tipping. I’ll occasionally type the take out person but if I have to pick it up then nope no tip. If it’s an Uber eats situation I’ll tip because someone is bringing it to me. Fast food nope! But OP I understand your point. We’re (average people not making 6 figures) not made of money. Tips add up and the industry is for sure taking advantage of people tipping during hard times. Well it’s hard times for the people giving the money too so maybe pay your workers more and make them feel human rather than rely on the wages of those who need to be paid more.

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Agree. But if you do that, the staffs might show their attitudes to you. Good idea but hard to execute

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This would be no different than not tipping at a table at a restaurant where tips are expected. Some restaurants have moved away from tips for servers in favor of salary (although during COVID some of those restaurants went back to tips), however such move was not triggered by people who stiffed their server. If you want to make a difference, don’t eat at restaurants that have tipping at the counter. By not tipping at the counter you are not impacting the business you are impacting the workers only.

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Oh yeah, you’re right, OP.

I don’t tip Uber drivers a lot. Uber didn’t have tipping at the beginning, because the drivers get a huge cut of the ride…..

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I can speak from firsthand experience that delivery drivers (and I'm assuming it is similar for rideshare drivers) hardly get paid anything at all and rely on tips to make above minimum wage.

As much as I hate tipping culture, I could never give up eating out. I would never leave anything less than a 20% tip.

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I always tip, valet, food service, bartenders… basically every service industry worker. I grew up in Las Vegas though… so I know how much service industry workers depend on it. You do you though OP.

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The reason we can get large portions of food for cheap prices is because restaurant owners pass off the cost of employee salaries to the customers - through tipping.
When I learned about this, I started tipping 20% minimum (used to be around 10%) because I see it as my fair share of the cost of my meals. Otherwise, I'm just a freeloader eating cheap food while I stand on the shoulders of actual tippers.

funny

What's the other option? We can force full salaries across the board for service-based employment and you're going to start paying a lot more than a 20% tip

Edit: I agree with OP that it's only necessary to tip at a sit down restaurant, but my point is to give closer to 20% when doing so

For an industry that relies so much on the gratitude of its patrons, the error rate aka “f-ed up my order” rate is too high! Why?

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