Ps... What happens when you realize that an SM you’re close with, and have been mentoring and supporting for P class isn’t a nice person to juniors? Do you have that conversation with them or do you cut them loose?

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I do not promote people who don’t value their teams.

You need to demonstrate integrity.
You need to take care of our people.
You need to be consistently effective in the marketplace.

That’s it. You either have it or you don’t.

likeuplifting

Good for you P1 and P2! I wish we had leaders like you, for some reason the worst people are becoming Partners in our team 😔

When I was a junior I WISHED seniors got ranked on their actual ability to communicate / train / mentor / manage people below them.

Now I’m senior I realise how much effort it is 😬

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(More reason for it to be rewarded!)

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From Adam Grant:
“The most direct way to figure out what's valued in a culture isn’t to listen to what people say is important. It's to pay attention to who gets rewarded and promoted into leadership roles.
Groups elevate people who represent their principles and advance their goals.”

likesmart

You don’t promote them explain to them why. As a mentor, you don’t cut people loose... you mentor them.

likeuplifting

I would provide direct feedback that the issue would stop any ability to be promoted and could end in termination. I would then provide a short leash for 6 months and see if it improves providing feedback along the way. I have seen people improve on this area so I would give the person a chance.

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Have a conversation about what you’re aware of and provide coaching to this person to improve. Doesn’t seem like someone should be blacklisted simply because of this one flaw—if upon coaching and mitigating the issues don’t work, then you can revisit the idea on whether this person is ready for partnership

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Unless there are formal complaints already , I generally give such people direct feedback and give them a year to mend their ways . But it’s fairly binary - we won’t promote anyone we suspect has poor people management skills .

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Is it common that other PMDs don’t realize this until the person is an SM?

In my experience, it is clear pretty early on (M and even C levels) but curious to hear other perspectives.

I generally take their attitude/approach to juniors into consideration early and don’t mentor those who don’t share my values.

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I would say not common, however there’s an element where we have more exposure to SMs vs other levels, so it’s more visible. Also the impact is much higher at this level - one if the things we ask about candidates is whether they have a team to support them.

You and others above are correct, of course, that this doesn’t happen overnight and hopefully is identified early and corrected.

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I think the responses here are really interesting because I know at my old (more traditional) firm the leaders talk like those on this thread, but this issue is a LOT more subjective than black and white. Yes, I know that folks who are notoriously a complete nightmare to work for have been told no. But I know tons of people who do not do their work on people management, definitely are below average on it, and to me are a risk to the firm because people don’t like working for them but they are not “abusive” and they continue to move up.

People leadership has long been a strength for me and it is A TON of work - and I was always rewarded for it both through better delivery and recognition, but the ways in which my peers did not contribute much to that (in my mind shared) project made the entire firm worse and it harder for me to work there. Part of the reason I left my old firm is I felt while I was rewarded for this, the way in which people leadership excellence wasn’t enforced really bothered me and I felt significantly impacted our ability to keep people, develop people, deliver consistently.

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