Black People In Consulting

Q: Can we (blacks) be racist? There is an INCREDIBLY heated racial discussion going on in the Deloitte bowl and now the definition of racism is under a microscope. Curious of this community’s thoughts

likehelpful
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works at

^ Also $500 OP isn't Black Who says in this bowl "can we(blacks)" or "this community's" instead of just saying "we" or "our community"? SUSPECT

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likefunny
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got damn op. lol, copy me on that dm tho tryna see something.

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Yes of course. We are not perpetual victims who do no wrong. Also this redefinition of racism to include power is just odd. So Asians, Latinos, and Indians can’t be racists because they don’t have power in America? Blacks can be racists only in Africa?

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likesmart
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Nah. Black people across the diaspora have no ability to oppress other races. We can internalize racism and imitate whiteness but we cannot be racism.

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I don’t believe that a black person can be racist. We can be bigoted, prejudice or discriminatory but not racist. Racism is authoritative it comes from a systematic power that black people don’t possess. It’s reflected in disparities regarding wealth, income, criminal justice, employment, housing, healthcare, political power, and education. Blacks didn’t establish institutional racism and don’t have the potential to practice it either. If you studied Plessy vs. Ferguson U.S. Supreme Court Case, you will find a prime example to support this argument regarding systemic racism.

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my humble opinion was that we use racism and racist interchangeably. I made a line of demarcation that racism is the social construct but someone could be racist because of their feelings of a different authenticity/race. I posted the definition to provide transparency and to say I was incorrect I think the takeaway is can we be disingenuous to other minorities Whether we call it prejudice or ignorance to me it is about the action and less about the word we use

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There’s being racist and then there is racism and sometimes those two terms get used interchangeably. In my humble opinion black folks can be racist but they cannot be accused of racism because racism is the societal construct of institutions, organizations and governments treating us as second-class citizens.

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likesmart
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^^^WTF just stop

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Repost: So I used to think people like D2 were just fking nuts. But I’m starting to find these communities of Jews, Asians, and Indians where they literally create opportunities for their own and do not share with the outside world. They have their own group chat apps where they discuss unlisted investment opportunities, help each other get good jobs, mentoring/coaching, dating etc. and if you’re an outsider, they al just leave the chat and create a new one, and ban you. It’s a very real thing that I had no idea was going on until pretty recently. There are literally groups of people that keep other groups of people out of their circle, keeping them ignorant. Knowledge is the key to power in this world, and groups who keep that control from others based on race or social class do have a superiority issue. Now, where it gets interesting, If you double click, on say the Indians, there’s different social classes. And even within the upper class, unless you were born in region A, and went to university A, and have tier A job, then you can’t be in the group chat. So it’s not just race, it can also depend who your daddy was, where he went to school, if your mother is 100% pure from the motherland etc. Anyway, I can see the balance of power argument, but I think we need a different word to describe what’s going on. Looking out for your own social group and pure violent hatred solely based on race are two different things which is where the confusion lies

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Yes, black people can be racist. They can also be prejudiced, classist, discriminatory and also participate in systemic racism. There is no monopoly on racism. Or any of the above.

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Someone said it in here but what a lot of people are defining as 'systemic racism' is really power dynamics and it happens all across the world. For example my Dad was born in Nigeria and worked in Nigeria in the 80s. During that time he told me that if you had an Igbo name in Lagos (a multicultural city but dominated by Yorubas) it would be very hard to get a job due to the bad reputation Igbos had during that time (ask any non-Igbo Nigerian grandparent what they think of igbos and you can say hear some pretty nasty stuff). In fact during that time, many Igbos upon moving to Lagos would change their names to Yoruba names and perfected the Yoruba language in the correct Yoruba accent so they could get easier access to jobs (sound familiar?) This problem happens all over Africa (not just in Nigeria) and in Nigeria where 98-99% of the population is black there is still this form of exclusion by ethnicity because of power dynamics. Now if you go to PH city or Kano, the power dynamics will change! That example is just black on black. If you look at the way southern African countries have treated their white populations post apartheid (South Africa, Zimbabwe) you will see CLEAR systemic racism. So to answer the question, YES! It's pretty obvious that black people can be racist, prejudiced, discriminatory, systemically racist, sexist, ageist, brownist, heightist whatever definition y'all wanna use these days!

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likesmart
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I like this answer, but it seems to me like a deeper issue of tribalism more than anything else.

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Reading this thread I frankly don’t understand why people want to redefine racism. So now blacks can’t be racists, so what does that accomplish? So all black people who make racist comments or are using violence based on race are now what, one level below racists?

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D10, so if Oprah said I don’t want this white woman Sally working for O magazine, whatever the hell else Oprah owns, and did her best not to make sure Sally got a job in entertainment/media, would you consider that racism or no?

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EVERYONE can be racist. EVERYONE!!! Period. Now are blacks more prone to being racist? I’d say NO. My opinion. But if you as a black person discriminate against others if a different race, how are you not racist. We can’t have it both ways. I’m black and proud.

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likefunny
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Oh no I'm late! Is this a bad time for a CP time joke? I think it's funny that people spend so much time arguing over whether black people can be racist, and the entire disagreement is simply based on which definition of racism you are using. I think the core of the disagreement is very understandable, especially with respect to black vs white in the United States. If your definition of racism is something like "hates people of a certain race," while this may be perfectly fine to understand the gist of racism, it completely misses out on the context surrounding race in America. If you're familiar with the last 300 years of American history, a white person saying, "I hate black people," and a black person saying, "I hate white people" are hardly equivalent statements. For example, in general when white Americans are "racist," this instance of racism is a trend characterized by the majority exerting their power over the minority; this instance of racism is born from the same line that produced the most gruesome form of slavery the world had ever seen, an era of legal segregation where blacks continued to be on the defense, and a persisting idea that black people are inherently unintelligent, aggressive, and inhuman. On the other hand, in general when black people are "racist," this instance of racism is part of the legacy of being treated less than human and knowing that others think less of you just because of your race. It's a hatred borne of resentment, and while I won't stand here and say it's never produced violence, I will say that nothing black people have done to white people as a whole has even touched the impact of slavery and racism against black people. So in a society where white people are propped up from resources such as wealth and political power and media representation and cognitive biases, it just seems *wrong* to even equate the two instances of racism. If racism were a crime, it seems unfair to say that both groups of people are equally guilty because one group is clearly stepping on the neck of the other, and this conflict so understandably creates resentment. So whenever I see this argument, I try to remind everyone why this argument even exists in the first place. We don't live in a world of equal opportunity, and in a world without equal opportunity, context is extremely important to understand why we do what we do and what impact our actions have.

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likesmart
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You are 100% right on the impact of racist beliefs, but I’d push back on why this discussion is problematic. My view: Adopting a definitionally inaccurate view of what is and isn’t racist needlessly opens us up to effective counter arguments that obscure the more important topic of impact. The likely logic being that “If we refuse to define terms accurately at the base level, then our more nuanced (and accurate) arguments about impact must be similarly biased and incorrect. Solution: Be accurate about basic definitions and fight the real battle that matters around impact; where we have ample facts and history on our side of the argument.

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likesmart
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Yup, black people can be racist. I’m black, in an inter-racial relationship and experienced it..

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Y’all gotta stop having these goofy discussions in here man lol. This whole argument is white supremacist in nature.

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I think there’s levels of racially-motivated prejudicial behavior. There’s an interpersonal level wherein which I personally believe ALL ethnic groups are capable of perpetrating “racist” behaviors towards non-members of that ethnic group. Now it’s important to note that these behaviors 9 times out of 10 are largely influenced by stereotypes. The second level, however, is a structural/societal prejudicial behavior that is primarily built on socioeconomic power. Now, in this is instance, no, no black people or for that matter any ethnic minority in the US (I’m sure it’s different for other countries) can be capable of racist behaviors. In short: let’s follow the golden rule of treating others the way we want to be treated and work together to create a more equitable society. It’s a long road ahead but that doesn’t mean that the work can’t be done. If we want to build a better future, we need to do the work today.

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Black people can't be racist. Prejudice, yes, but not racist. Racism describes a system of disadvantage based on race. Black people can't be racist since we don't stand to benefit from such a system. -Dear White People

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funny
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Did they source that definition? Because it’s not in alignment with the real one. If anything, it’s closer to the definition of “systemic racism” which is a specific kind of racism.

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Everyone is entitled to their opinion. My experience may differ from others. It was also not meant to be condemning or condescending. The fact that we are still having these debates is an indication that there are two separate Americas.

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So my question is after all of this definition, what are we going to do about it? The trope that we can’t be racist allows some of us to wrap ourselves in a cloak of hatred and assholery. 

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I’ll post a response by someone from the post I think you’re referencing that sums up why I don’t think blacks can be racist.

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To me prejudice and racism are two different things so it’s not an argument of semantics. Reading through the thread, however, has shown me that some people agree with my position and some agree with yours. I don’t think that makes what I’m saying any less right and what you’re saying any more right - just that there is disagreement. I’ll refrain from saying any more because you and I are talking past each other. You believe what you do, and I believe what I do. I’ve tried to explain my thoughts and you yours and we still don’t agree. We will have to agree to disagree.

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Discrimination base on race. Yes. The majority of the planet will no directly equate systematic racism to just racism because it clearly a sub group of racism thus the need a the word systematic.

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This Q might sounds dumb to ask and I’m not trying to being funny or to put on. I truly think we can, but more than a few blacks in that thread disagree. Am I outta touch?

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no you are not,...

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You could also argue it’s racist to believe in races. From a scientific standpoint, the only human race is homo sapiens sapiens. But it’s just a matter of words. While not races per se, people see different “categories” of humans (e.g., black, white, Asian)

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